Graphene for my Pixel 7 Pro, I guess. I have like 20 F-Droid apps. Google can fuck themselves. The masses won't even notice a difference, sadly.
Update
Okay, I've been doing research instead of just listening to the buzz on Lemmy. Nothing is meaningfully going to change. You are free to use Obtanium or F-Droid to install any app you want, and FOSS developers don't have to do a thing.
There's just a roadblock that's going to be introduced. You have to go through a little wizard that asks you if someone is pressuring you to enable side-loading, and then even when you say "yes, I want to move forward and enable side-loading", you have to wait 24 hours, one time, and never again. And that's only to install new apps. It's not going to affect any ones you already have installed.
The video linked in this FAQ was very clear and demos the process.
... Mostrar más
Graphene for my Pixel 7 Pro, I guess. I have like 20 F-Droid apps. Google can fuck themselves. The masses won't even notice a difference, sadly.
Update
Okay, I've been doing research instead of just listening to the buzz on Lemmy. Nothing is meaningfully going to change. You are free to use Obtanium or F-Droid to install any app you want, and FOSS developers don't have to do a thing.
There's just a roadblock that's going to be introduced. You have to go through a little wizard that asks you if someone is pressuring you to enable side-loading, and then even when you say "yes, I want to move forward and enable side-loading", you have to wait 24 hours, one time, and never again. And that's only to install new apps. It's not going to affect any ones you already have installed.
The video linked in this FAQ was very clear and demos the process.
I can't believe the Lemmyverse let me believe that F-Droid and Obtanium were effectively going away for normal Android users, and that I must install something like GrapheneOS. 😑
I still might! Google can suck my asshole, but reinstalling a phone OS is a big deal. Not that it's hard or particularly error prone, but I have to reinstall everything, and set everything back up, because I'm not gonna buy a new phone to put Graphene on it, and then do the standard Android migration process. I would have to wipe my phone and redo everything. That's a chore that I probably won't do if nothing is meaningfully changing for me. I can deal with "the advanced flow".
This guide answers common questions regarding Android developer verification, covering topics like compliance, account types, fees, and app registration processes.
Ok, that makes sense. I'm just surprised I didn't hear about the workaround. No one had mentioned it that I've seen. I really thought I had to switch to Graphene, and I was sad.
F-Droid and Obtanium are going away for normal android users.
It is deliberately difficult, and this whole thing is absolutely about Google making more money by tightening control of the ecosystem, not about security.
Nine steps, 24-hour wait, buried in Developer Options, delivered through a proprietary service that Google can revoke whenever they want. That's not sideloading. That's a deterrence mechanism built to ensure almost nobody completes it. And since it runs through Play Services rather than the OS, Google can tighten or kill it silently
F-Droid and Obtanium are going away for normal android users.
Sure, and normal users haven't even heard of them, so nothing's lost.
It doesn't sound like that website's up to date.
this whole thing is absolutely about Google making more money.
F-Droid has like 4,000 apps on it. Let's say all 4k are made by different developers. The $100 registration fee would net them $400,000. That's a drop in their bucket. That's like 1 second worth of their ad revenue. They would not cause this much of a community uproar for $400k. This is absolutely about preventing scam apps.
What's really happening, I'm guessing, is Android gets a bad rap in other countries because of all the scams and people switch to iPhone. That does a lot more damage to their bottom line.
It's also way too easy for some dumb 70 y/o congressperson or business executive to install spyware on their phone, and they are putting a speed bump in front of that.
I hate Google, but come on. They're not trying to squ
... Mostrar más
F-Droid and Obtanium are going away for normal android users.
Sure, and normal users haven't even heard of them, so nothing's lost.
It doesn't sound like that website's up to date.
this whole thing is absolutely about Google making more money.
F-Droid has like 4,000 apps on it. Let's say all 4k are made by different developers. The $100 registration fee would net them $400,000. That's a drop in their bucket. That's like 1 second worth of their ad revenue. They would not cause this much of a community uproar for $400k. This is absolutely about preventing scam apps.
What's really happening, I'm guessing, is Android gets a bad rap in other countries because of all the scams and people switch to iPhone. That does a lot more damage to their bottom line.
It's also way too easy for some dumb 70 y/o congressperson or business executive to install spyware on their phone, and they are putting a speed bump in front of that.
I hate Google, but come on. They're not trying to squeeze pennies out of open source developers. The fee is another speed bump to stop scammers from simply making another free developer account to spread they're malware after they get banned.
Yeah, I'm also planning to switch to PostmarketOS. I was running Ubuntu Touch when my carrier changed things to where my phone didn't work as a phone without VoLTE. Ubuntu Touch doesn't support VoLTE on my Pixel 3a so I reluctantly switched to stock.
It wasn't until after I switched to stock firmware that I found out that PostmarketOS has experimental support for VoLTE on my device. I'm hoping "experimental" is good enough for my purposes, but we'll see when I get around to doing it.
Yup, also not only unlockable but relockable (some are only the former as I understand), relocking is important for the new image's security and may enable more apps to work.
The only thing it might affect is my favorite f-droid music app. I'm leaning away from the Alphabet ecosystem for other uses though - Joplin instead of Keep for note-taking, Organic Maps instead of Gmaps for nav, local LibreOffice files instead of Workspace apps when online collab isn't critical.
Nobody has quite stepped up to compete with G Sheets. Even Excel online is a distant runner-up. Proton is working on challenging Alphabet's Drive/Docs/Sheets hegemony but right now it's painfully basic.
I've been using Lineage with no Google Play services for years, so unless the app developers decide to stop updating their apps, I'll be alright. But in the future, I fully intend to switch to post-market OS when I purchase my next phone.
Only if it's paired with countries moving away from requiring the big services to use government or banking services. Oughta be a law that banks and government institutions must provide access via other OSs and browsers.
TL;DR: it will get harder to distribute android apps to the majority of the users. You can still do whatever you want with your device, for now, if you go through all the new extra steps.
I installed e/os/ on my Fairphone 6 and it is missing a lot of Android stuff that I use:
NFC payments
Android Auto integration
The IKEA home app won't run
Okay, it's not that much. 😄
Still, I don't feel like I can ditch my Android phone.
My current plan is to see how the Mecha Comet fares, and maybe use it for most things, but keep an Android phone for things that require submission to the Tech Gods of the West.
But I hate how many notifications Android Auto creates and how many Google apps you have to install to get it to work. I have it set up under separate user on Graphene OS not to pollute my main profile.
What I really want is my bank to support NFC payments on my phone. They see the details of my purchase anyway!
My bank used to do this, but migrated to Google Wallet, which sucks. I think that is the cheapest option for banks, so I would be surprised if any choose to roll their own.
Depending on the financial institution, that sort of app function would be outsourced to a third party anyhow. Payment networks are semi-separate from banks/financial institutions, and they're generally involved in digital wallets. And those payment networks are separate -- like how we recently saw the big banks sell Moneris, a payment network, off to US private equity. Or how Interac isn't a 'bank'. Even something like an ATM is a partnership between banks and payment networks -- you can see the payment networks ATMs are a part of on the decals on the ATM, which generally need to match the decals on your card. Those are the payment networks the banks semi-outsourced / partnered with for facilitating ATM activities. The bank buys/owns the ATM (typically), and then has an agreement in place with those networks in regards to payments / transactions, and a defined data exchange between those networks and the banks systems for settlements.
Migrations to google wallet are generally cheaper than getting that sort of feature with one of the older style payment networks, you're righ
... Mostrar más
Depending on the financial institution, that sort of app function would be outsourced to a third party anyhow. Payment networks are semi-separate from banks/financial institutions, and they're generally involved in digital wallets. And those payment networks are separate -- like how we recently saw the big banks sell Moneris, a payment network, off to US private equity. Or how Interac isn't a 'bank'. Even something like an ATM is a partnership between banks and payment networks -- you can see the payment networks ATMs are a part of on the decals on the ATM, which generally need to match the decals on your card. Those are the payment networks the banks semi-outsourced / partnered with for facilitating ATM activities. The bank buys/owns the ATM (typically), and then has an agreement in place with those networks in regards to payments / transactions, and a defined data exchange between those networks and the banks systems for settlements.
Migrations to google wallet are generally cheaper than getting that sort of feature with one of the older style payment networks, you're right about that. Cheaper by a fairly large margin.
One point I was making though, is that there are likely more companies 'seeing' the details of your purchase than you may realize. And many of those companies have significant ties to the USA, and are reliant on USA products/services. Even "local community credit unions" tend to use one of two networks, one of which has all its support coming out of the USA. Our government / regulators have made no movement to detangle any of that, and are, in fact, pushing more and more of your financial industry into offshoring services to the USA. Our government/Carney are all "Elbows up!" in the media, but "Pants Down!" in practice.
Those still touch payment networks. Debit cards are basically cards from Payment networks that are partnered with Banks/Credit Unions. PSP/DC Payments is an example of a payment network, Everlink, Interac, Exchange, Cirrus, etc. Seeing as Carney/Canada are ok selling off those payment networks to US Private Equity, you're going to always be somewhat dependent at this point on US services. Like I'd bet you that most of Interac, even though it's "Canadian", is running in US Cloud platforms like Azure and AWS, meaning it's 'realistically' fair game for US AI harvesting etc. Canadian businesses that try to pretend they're 'good' on this front will almost always cite privacy legislation compliance, to things like "Data residency" -- pretending as though just because a copy of the data is stored in Canada, that it isn't exposed/leveraged/dependent on US/foreign services.
None of that matters since in the Netherlands many shops are card only. I need to pay somehow... I'd rather not have all payments be controlled by two companies (Apple and Google). Getting off of US hardware is a laudable goal, but not as important as breaking monopoly power.
Ah, then your card payments may also be generally 'good' for all I know, I'm not too familiar with how outsourced many European countries are in this regard.
The package (com.google.android.verifier) will be introduced on devices running Android 8 or higher, granting Google the ability to block the installation of unverified apps.
Sunshine
in reply to Sunshine • • •like this
tiina85 likes this.
Quibblekrust
in reply to Sunshine • • •Graphene for my Pixel 7 Pro, I guess. I have like 20 F-Droid apps. Google can fuck themselves. The masses won't even notice a difference, sadly.
Update
Okay, I've been doing research instead of just listening to the buzz on Lemmy. Nothing is meaningfully going to change. You are free to use Obtanium or F-Droid to install any app you want, and FOSS developers don't have to do a thing.
There's just a roadblock that's going to be introduced. You have to go through a little wizard that asks you if someone is pressuring you to enable side-loading, and then even when you say "yes, I want to move forward and enable side-loading", you have to wait 24 hours, one time, and never again. And that's only to install new apps. It's not going to affect any ones you already have installed.
developer.android.com/developer-verification/guides/faq#advanced-flow
The video linked in this FAQ was very clear and demos the process.
... Mostrar másGraphene for my Pixel 7 Pro, I guess. I have like 20 F-Droid apps. Google can fuck themselves. The masses won't even notice a difference, sadly.
Update
Okay, I've been doing research instead of just listening to the buzz on Lemmy. Nothing is meaningfully going to change. You are free to use Obtanium or F-Droid to install any app you want, and FOSS developers don't have to do a thing.
There's just a roadblock that's going to be introduced. You have to go through a little wizard that asks you if someone is pressuring you to enable side-loading, and then even when you say "yes, I want to move forward and enable side-loading", you have to wait 24 hours, one time, and never again. And that's only to install new apps. It's not going to affect any ones you already have installed.
developer.android.com/developer-verification/guides/faq#advanced-flow
The video linked in this FAQ was very clear and demos the process.
I can't believe the Lemmyverse let me believe that F-Droid and Obtanium were effectively going away for normal Android users, and that I must install something like GrapheneOS. 😑
I still might! Google can suck my asshole, but reinstalling a phone OS is a big deal. Not that it's hard or particularly error prone, but I have to reinstall everything, and set everything back up, because I'm not gonna buy a new phone to put Graphene on it, and then do the standard Android migration process. I would have to wipe my phone and redo everything. That's a chore that I probably won't do if nothing is meaningfully changing for me. I can deal with "the advanced flow".
Frequently asked questions | Android developer verification | Android Developers
Android DevelopersPrinz Kasper
in reply to Quibblekrust • • •I mean, that was Google's original plan, until the backlash led them to introduce this option for "advanced users"
Quibblekrust
in reply to Prinz Kasper • • •EvenOdds
in reply to Quibblekrust • • •F-Droid and Obtanium are going away for normal android users.
It is deliberately difficult, and this whole thing is absolutely about Google making more money by tightening control of the ecosystem, not about security.
A nice summary from keepandroidopen.org/
Keep Android Open
keepandroidopen.orgQuibblekrust
in reply to EvenOdds • • •Sure, and normal users haven't even heard of them, so nothing's lost.
It doesn't sound like that website's up to date.
F-Droid has like 4,000 apps on it. Let's say all 4k are made by different developers. The $100 registration fee would net them $400,000. That's a drop in their bucket. That's like 1 second worth of their ad revenue. They would not cause this much of a community uproar for $400k. This is absolutely about preventing scam apps.
What's really happening, I'm guessing, is Android gets a bad rap in other countries because of all the scams and people switch to iPhone. That does a lot more damage to their bottom line.
It's also way too easy for some dumb 70 y/o congressperson or business executive to install spyware on their phone, and they are putting a speed bump in front of that.
I hate Google, but come on. They're not trying to squ
... Mostrar másSure, and normal users haven't even heard of them, so nothing's lost.
It doesn't sound like that website's up to date.
F-Droid has like 4,000 apps on it. Let's say all 4k are made by different developers. The $100 registration fee would net them $400,000. That's a drop in their bucket. That's like 1 second worth of their ad revenue. They would not cause this much of a community uproar for $400k. This is absolutely about preventing scam apps.
What's really happening, I'm guessing, is Android gets a bad rap in other countries because of all the scams and people switch to iPhone. That does a lot more damage to their bottom line.
It's also way too easy for some dumb 70 y/o congressperson or business executive to install spyware on their phone, and they are putting a speed bump in front of that.
I hate Google, but come on. They're not trying to squeeze pennies out of open source developers. The fee is another speed bump to stop scammers from simply making another free developer account to spread they're malware after they get banned.
masterofn001
in reply to Quibblekrust • • •Fdroid is a far more secure and reputable store than Play.
Google hosts and distributes more malware than anyone.
poVoq
in reply to Sunshine • • •Sunshine (she/her)
in reply to poVoq • • •poVoq
in reply to Sunshine (she/her) • • •TootSweet
in reply to poVoq • • •Yeah, I'm also planning to switch to PostmarketOS. I was running Ubuntu Touch when my carrier changed things to where my phone didn't work as a phone without VoLTE. Ubuntu Touch doesn't support VoLTE on my Pixel 3a so I reluctantly switched to stock.
It wasn't until after I switched to stock firmware that I found out that PostmarketOS has experimental support for VoLTE on my device. I'm hoping "experimental" is good enough for my purposes, but we'll see when I get around to doing it.
Carlos Solís
in reply to Sunshine • •Linux Phones reshared this.
Sunshine (she/her)
in reply to Carlos Solís • • •like this
Carlos Solís y dandi8 like this.
MalReynolds
in reply to Sunshine (she/her) • • •Sunshine
in reply to MalReynolds • • •JakenVeina
in reply to Sunshine • • •modernangel
in reply to Sunshine • • •The only thing it might affect is my favorite f-droid music app. I'm leaning away from the Alphabet ecosystem for other uses though - Joplin instead of Keep for note-taking, Organic Maps instead of Gmaps for nav, local LibreOffice files instead of Workspace apps when online collab isn't critical.
Nobody has quite stepped up to compete with G Sheets. Even Excel online is a distant runner-up. Proton is working on challenging Alphabet's Drive/Docs/Sheets hegemony but right now it's painfully basic.
WalrusDragonOnABike [they/them]
in reply to Sunshine • • •shortwavesurfer
in reply to Sunshine • • •mesa
in reply to Sunshine • • •huey_m
in reply to mesa • • •Fluffy Kitty Cat
in reply to huey_m • • •DeadEndLink
in reply to Fluffy Kitty Cat • • •Pope-King Joe
in reply to Sunshine • • •tehmics
in reply to Sunshine • • •Obituarykidney
in reply to Sunshine • • •like this
mrmaplebar likes this.
matsdis
in reply to Obituarykidney • • •See: keepandroidopen.org/
TL;DR: it will get harder to distribute android apps to the majority of the users. You can still do whatever you want with your device, for now, if you go through all the new extra steps.
Keep Android Open
keepandroidopen.orgneo2478
in reply to Sunshine • • •NotEasyBeingGreen
in reply to neo2478 • • •I installed e/os/ on my Fairphone 6 and it is missing a lot of Android stuff that I use:
Okay, it's not that much. 😄
Still, I don't feel like I can ditch my Android phone.
My current plan is to see how the Mecha Comet fares, and maybe use it for most things, but keep an Android phone for things that require submission to the Tech Gods of the West.
ExLisper
in reply to NotEasyBeingGreen • • •doc.e.foundation/os/how-to/android-auto/
But I hate how many notifications Android Auto creates and how many Google apps you have to install to get it to work. I have it set up under separate user on Graphene OS not to pollute my main profile.
How to setup Android Auto with /e/OS?
/e/OS documentationNotEasyBeingGreen
in reply to ExLisper • • •neo2478
in reply to NotEasyBeingGreen • • •neo2478
in reply to NotEasyBeingGreen • • •NotEasyBeingGreen
in reply to neo2478 • • •What I really want is my bank to support NFC payments on my phone. They see the details of my purchase anyway!
My bank used to do this, but migrated to Google Wallet, which sucks. I think that is the cheapest option for banks, so I would be surprised if any choose to roll their own.
wampus
in reply to NotEasyBeingGreen • • •Depending on the financial institution, that sort of app function would be outsourced to a third party anyhow. Payment networks are semi-separate from banks/financial institutions, and they're generally involved in digital wallets. And those payment networks are separate -- like how we recently saw the big banks sell Moneris, a payment network, off to US private equity. Or how Interac isn't a 'bank'. Even something like an ATM is a partnership between banks and payment networks -- you can see the payment networks ATMs are a part of on the decals on the ATM, which generally need to match the decals on your card. Those are the payment networks the banks semi-outsourced / partnered with for facilitating ATM activities. The bank buys/owns the ATM (typically), and then has an agreement in place with those networks in regards to payments / transactions, and a defined data exchange between those networks and the banks systems for settlements.
Migrations to google wallet are generally cheaper than getting that sort of feature with one of the older style payment networks, you're righ
... Mostrar másDepending on the financial institution, that sort of app function would be outsourced to a third party anyhow. Payment networks are semi-separate from banks/financial institutions, and they're generally involved in digital wallets. And those payment networks are separate -- like how we recently saw the big banks sell Moneris, a payment network, off to US private equity. Or how Interac isn't a 'bank'. Even something like an ATM is a partnership between banks and payment networks -- you can see the payment networks ATMs are a part of on the decals on the ATM, which generally need to match the decals on your card. Those are the payment networks the banks semi-outsourced / partnered with for facilitating ATM activities. The bank buys/owns the ATM (typically), and then has an agreement in place with those networks in regards to payments / transactions, and a defined data exchange between those networks and the banks systems for settlements.
Migrations to google wallet are generally cheaper than getting that sort of feature with one of the older style payment networks, you're right about that. Cheaper by a fairly large margin.
One point I was making though, is that there are likely more companies 'seeing' the details of your purchase than you may realize. And many of those companies have significant ties to the USA, and are reliant on USA products/services. Even "local community credit unions" tend to use one of two networks, one of which has all its support coming out of the USA. Our government / regulators have made no movement to detangle any of that, and are, in fact, pushing more and more of your financial industry into offshoring services to the USA. Our government/Carney are all "Elbows up!" in the media, but "Pants Down!" in practice.
NotEasyBeingGreen
in reply to wampus • • •wampus
in reply to NotEasyBeingGreen • • •NotEasyBeingGreen
in reply to wampus • • •wampus
in reply to NotEasyBeingGreen • • •BurgerBaron
in reply to Sunshine • • •I switched to GrapheneOS soon after the Pixel 8 came out, so ~2.5 years ago. DeGoogled last year. DeAmerican'd as much as possible this year.
I'm hoping Android getting locked down will motivate more people to work on Linux for mobile devices.
bad1080
in reply to Sunshine • • •ArmchairAce1944
in reply to Sunshine • • •Alavi
in reply to Sunshine • • •snoons
in reply to Sunshine • • •1337ESTbun
in reply to Sunshine • • •this phone probably has at least 10 CVE's I'm sure of it
Sunshine
in reply to 1337ESTbun • • •doingthestuff
in reply to Sunshine • • •Man I wish we could all agree to use the most superior date format:
YYYY MM DD
Bahnd Rollard
in reply to doingthestuff • • •ILikeBoobies
in reply to doingthestuff • • •Beangut
in reply to Sunshine • • •Linux Phones reshared this.
HuePony
in reply to Sunshine • • •dubs
in reply to Sunshine • • •