Rennet makes this a much more complicated decision for vegetarians. Like, if I know that the cheese was made with bacteria-derived enzymes, then that's cool, but it's really hard to know and trusting random cheese is just like still eating beef sometimes, so even though I'm vegetarian I end up being so picky about cheese that I hardly eat it anyway.
Esta entrada fue editada (miércoles, 9 de septiembre de 2026, 4:45)
Spoiler: milk cows get murdered as well. A milk cow is productive for about 5 years, after which they usually get slaughtered for pet food. In that time, they need to have about 3 calves, to continue producing "good returns" amount of milk daily. Two of those calves are not needed to replace the cow, so they get - guess what? - slaughtered and processed to pet food.
Stupid me grew up next to a milk farm and didn't realize that until way later than I care to admit.
Also, I still eat cheese (reduced amounts) and that's a moral dilemma for me.
That ethical problem could be solved (well, not if you are "fully" vegan, and view even keeping pets and livestock, unacceptable), by doing good small-scale production. Factory farming producing the inhuman conditions, is needed to make the operations economically sustainable, in the way it is build into capitalist systems. But if you would keep the cows well, milk products could be made quite ethically... Now of course the costs needed to do that would make milk extremely expensive, and small-scale could not replace the massive demand, so people would have to consume way less anyway.
But if you would keep the cows well, milk products could be made quite ethically…
Could be - but that would also mean taking milk away from the calves for a while. Not sure how much milk a cow would be able to continue to give and what the quality would be after the calf has had enough to outgrow infancy.
Now eggs however, those could be absolutely produced without animal suffering. Just be willing to pay more for the eggs so that hens can live free range in natural environments, and still get to continue living when they produce less or even no more eggs until they die from natural causes.
I don't see a big ethical problem with snatching an unfertilised egg, considering that hens are able to lay like one egg a day. They won't miss it if you take away a bunch of them and let them breed out the odd one.
Could be - but that would also mean taking milk away from the calves for a while. Not sure how much milk a cow would be able to continue to give and what the quality would be after the calf has had enough to outgrow infancy.
This is doable, especially with the cows, that have been bred to produce milk. You do not even need to separate the mom and calf, for more than a moment, to milk, so we do know it is possible. You just get less milk, than by taking the calf away, so it is not profitable in comparison. There are other problems though, like they should be able to feed mostly by pasture grazing, which takes a lot of land, and if you do not kill some of the cows and bulls for food, you will have way too many... etc.
And with eggs - yes. The EU standards for "bio" eggs are already better (very far from perfect though), so it might be possible to do profitably even. A big ethical problem with factory farming chickens right now, though, is the process of mass producing the egg-laying chickens themselves. Hens are kept, but the male chicks might be ju
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Could be - but that would also mean taking milk away from the calves for a while. Not sure how much milk a cow would be able to continue to give and what the quality would be after the calf has had enough to outgrow infancy.
This is doable, especially with the cows, that have been bred to produce milk. You do not even need to separate the mom and calf, for more than a moment, to milk, so we do know it is possible. You just get less milk, than by taking the calf away, so it is not profitable in comparison. There are other problems though, like they should be able to feed mostly by pasture grazing, which takes a lot of land, and if you do not kill some of the cows and bulls for food, you will have way too many... etc.
And with eggs - yes. The EU standards for "bio" eggs are already better (very far from perfect though), so it might be possible to do profitably even. A big ethical problem with factory farming chickens right now, though, is the process of mass producing the egg-laying chickens themselves. Hens are kept, but the male chicks might be just thrown into a shredder. Even if all of them were raised, a lot of the cocks would have to be killed, since there would be carnage otherwise, as you cannot keep them together, and you have to have multiple hens more than cocks in a flock. This also applies if you keep chickens in your backyard, so there are always excess cocks being given away, that nobody wants, and many end up as food.
Poor roosters. I believe the best solution for that would be the "in ovo" gender detection. One article here: sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003257912300425X - in an ethical egg production scenario, the quoted machine learning could actually be viable: the false positive roosters are simply lucky, and get raised to adulthood / live a happy life ;) If the reason for false positives is not self-enforcing through genetics, they could even be the normal "fathers of the next generation".
Assuming, of course, the false positive rate can be lowered enough.
Re: milk - I have to say, for drinking, if you find a good brand, oat milk can be very tasty - I personally even think it tastes better in coffee / cappuccino than regular milk. And cheese - I just happen to have bought this hour for the first time a delicious vegan "Brie" variant: vanozza.de
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Poor roosters. I believe the best solution for that would be the "in ovo" gender detection. One article here: sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003257912300425X - in an ethical egg production scenario, the quoted machine learning could actually be viable: the false positive roosters are simply lucky, and get raised to adulthood / live a happy life ;) If the reason for false positives is not self-enforcing through genetics, they could even be the normal "fathers of the next generation".
Assuming, of course, the false positive rate can be lowered enough.
Re: milk - I have to say, for drinking, if you find a good brand, oat milk can be very tasty - I personally even think it tastes better in coffee / cappuccino than regular milk. And cheese - I just happen to have bought this hour for the first time a delicious vegan "Brie" variant: vanozza.de/en/produkte.html#brie-pfeffer I am positively surprised, after the last couple of tries I no longer thought I would see the day - but this one is actually yummy!
For oat milk: tastewise best is Oatly Barista, but Oatly is in bed with investors from fascistan, so I go for the second best option which is also delicious: Lidl house brand vemondo, barista drink. Important: it must be the one produced by Grønvang (gronvang.dk/?lang=en) - the one by Green & White from Vlissingen/NL tastes bland / watery in comparison.
Discover VANOZZA's vegan cheese alternatives: Mozzarella Flavor, Old Italian, No Sheep Greek feta, Brie Natural & Green Pepper, Chili Cheese, Grated Gusto, and Frischcreme cream cheese. Made in Hamburg.
I am aware and I do make every effort to reduce and remove dairy (and eggs) from my diet, but I recognize that I fall short of what I would consider vegan. Like if I'm at a party and am offered cake I'm probably going to eat it even though there's probably egg in it, but I'm not going to order an egg-based dish, same with dairy if we're having pizza or something. As I get older I'm increasingly lactose intolerant anyway, so I have additional incentive to avoid it.
The important thing is that you make a conscious effort to improve. I am the same. I eat cheese and occasionally eggs - rarely even meat, but I try to overall consume very little animal products.
Absolutely. For me it's all about harm reduction so as long as I am trying to improve, I can still fall short sometimes without having a crisis of conscience.
I haven't seen fake cheese that tastes good yet. A good tip is not to try to make vegan food taste like non vegan. Just enjoy the vegan foods as they are.
PS I'm trying the whole "give up beef" thing plus "be vegan one day of the week".
A good tip is not to try to make vegan food taste like non vegan. Just enjoy the vegan foods as they are.
As a non vegan/vegetarian, I agree fully. By trying to replicate something else, the result often appears like a worse alternative.
I enjoy plenty of vegetarian and vegan foods, but don't try and tell me that a plant based burger tastes the same as a normal burger, that just ruins the experience.
Play to your own strengths and don't pretend to be something you are not, by doing that you reduce the stigma of vegan and vegetarian labels becoming associated with lower quality.
The concept of being vegetarian one day a week sounds like a brilliant idea, not sure that I would go the entire way to vegan across a full day, but a few vegan meals in a week wouldn't be so hard.
don't try and tell me a plant based burger tastes the same as a normal burger
Go to burger king. Get a regular whopper and an impossible whopper. They are literally indistinguishable. Well, until an hour later when the impossible whopper gives you a ton of gas lol.
That's a straight up case of dumping enough crap on top of each patty that you can't tell what the hell you are eating anyway.
Try cooking each patty with nothing more than a bit of salt and eat them plain with nothing else, not even a bun, and then tell me you can't taste the difference.
The buns, the catsup, mustard, "special sauce", the onions, the pickles, the cheese, lettuce, and don't forget the sesame seeds! You could put a piece of cardboard in that McDonald's hamburger and not be able to tell the difference......
Ok, so you just weren't reading then I guess? Because this is about Burger King, not McDonalds. And you can get a plain whopper with just the bun vs a plain impossible whopper and it's the same case, they will taste identical.
You must not pay much attention to what is placed on your burger then. Burger King or McDonald's is all the same stack of crap on a bun. They both smother the patty with all the stuff I listed to hide the low quality. No matter if it's a beef whopper or the impossible whopper. If you don't believe me, buy one of each and take them apart to compare.
Whoppers have a ton of toppings. Lettuce, onion, tomato, mayo, ketchup, and I'm probably forgetting something. The only real taste from the meat is the grilling smoke.
I've had impossible burgers and while they are a bland they did a decent job on texture, so enough toppings make up for it just like with cheap beef.
While I understand your argument and fully agree that there are plenty of normal vegan dishes that hold there own, this point always comes from the non vegans 😅
Meat tastes good, and going vegan often means giving up favourite dishes that you grew up with. Having the mock alternatives means that when you do get that itch, you can still kind of scratch it. I also dont think it is fair to write them all of as inferior, there are some pretty incredible options these days.
No, having a mock alternative doesn't sceatch the itch, it just reinforces how much better the real version of that thing was. While I haven't tried them all, I have tried a lot due to recommendations by friends and every one has been like comparing turkey bacon to regular bacon. No, it isn't even close.
I enjoy a lot of dishes that are vegetarian or vegan because they play to the strengths of their ingredients without pretending to be something else. Replicating the format is fine, many kinds of dishes share similar formats, but trying to compare it to something specific is a bad idea. I have had some vegsn sausages thst were great for example, but they are their own thing snd not comparable to beef, pork, or combination sausages and there is such a wide variety of meat sausages there is no need to compare it to anything specific. It can be its own thing!
Esta entrada fue editada (miércoles, 9 de septiembre de 2026, 14:22)
a big part is the perception of what you're used to, I rarely eat meat nowadays and when I do it tends to be game.
My burger patties have gotten to a point where I prefer them to any meat alternative, I'm not saying they're the same. Outside of serving the same purpose in a burger, but it's pretty wild I scoff at minced red deer meat now - It just doesn't carry the same umfph
Non vegetarian here. A vegan friend served me some vegan burger and I was absolutely shocked at how good it was. Did it taste exactly like beef? No. However it hit most of the spots to sate a craving I may have for one. The vegan cheese pretty much perfectly emulated american "cheese", which I don't personally use, but on a burger has a specific place. I have also introduce TVP into my normal diet. If you cook it right it can act as a very good alternative to crumbled ground beef. My friend makes a vegan chili dip that, if not told, almost everyone just assumes contains beef.
Other vegan cheeses I have tried are awful, even some expensive ones. My best friend doesn't process animal protein, so was basically forced into eating vegan style. We have made some recipes from chefs online, mostly using various types of mushrooms, that are to emulate steak, that have been very good.
giving up beef alone should be commended, just for environmental/climate reasons.
Yes, but the post is about veganism, which is the ethical principle that it’s wrong to exploit animals. Cows enslaved for milk are in most cases worse off than those enslaved for their flesh as they are repeatedly impregnated, have their children killed, and are still slaughtered at a fraction of their lifespan just like the flesh cows.
I've never cut beef out entirely but it is surprisingly easy to dramatically reduce how much one uses. Nearly everything that's good with beef is also good with other meats. I also found doing meatless Mondays to be a great way to experiment with vegetarian/vegan dishes without feeling like I was missing out on anything and then I could take that knowledge into other days
I think a big problem is a lot of people are not confident in their ability to cook. They maybe know how to make a couple of their favorite childhood dishes and a couple things they picked up along the way, maybe. It's hard to replace a burger with a portabello if you don't know how to critically approach cooking temps and times so it ends up awful, or trying to cook a passable ratatouille and not knowing how to use a knife or having any spices in the cupboard
It was hot when I first bit it, hot as a glede, and my mouth was scorched, so that I doubt if ever again I shall be free of the pain of it. Yet even as I write it is cooled, and it seemeth to shrink, though it loseth neither its beauty nor its shape.... But for my part I will risk no hurt to this thing: of all the works of ranching the only fair. It is precious to me, though I buy it with great pain.
It depends a bit om where you are and what kind of cheese. For instance in the EU, Parmigiano Reggiano always has calf rennet, otherwise it's not allowed to have that name. Nowadays a lot of cheeses in the Netherlands do specify it on the ingredients list though.
Fun fact, cheese is not always vegetarian. It can (quite often) contain animal rennet (from the inside of a young cow stomage, the cow needs to die for this)
As a person who check all cheese in the supermarket for this. The current state (EU/NL) is almost 60%, 60% of the cheese in our supermarket is without murdering baby cows. Which I up from last year, and it has been trending up for a while.
I have no clue how other countries are doing, my guess us worse. Some france people still label 'Fish' as 'Vegan'
That number moves much closer to 0% if you start counting the baby cows killed in order to keep their mothers perpetually lactating, rather than just those whose bodies were used as a direct ingredient.
A cow will be impregnated 6-8 times during her life on a typical dairy farm, before she is killed af half her natural lifespan to be replaced by a younger cow. One of those baby cows will be raised as that replacement cow, the rest will be killed shortly after birth.
Killing baby cows is an inherent part of cow-milk production.
Esta entrada fue editada (miércoles, 9 de septiembre de 2026, 9:31)
It's highly market-senstive what happens to them, but I have previously worked on dairy farms in NZ and AU, and in both countries, calves(except replacement heifers) that get raised at all are a rounding error, maybe a handful per farm that are kept for personal slaughter and consumption.
If the bobby-calf (aka veal) market is paying well enough, then they are shipped off for slaughter at ~4 days old. If the market doesnt pay well enough to justify 4 days of rearing costs, then they are killed immediately and sold for their skins.
A cows natural life span is 20ish years. They're kept perpetually pregnant for years until their bodies give out, then they're slaughtered at around 5 years old.
cows don't naturally live to 20 years. they can live that long if they are well fed and watered and protected from disease, predators, and the environment. that's an artificial life span.
I'm not bringing any moral value, just the note that synthetic remnet is cheaper then real one, another commenter said that about 60% of cheeses use it,i thought it would be much more.
Esta entrada fue editada (miércoles, 9 de septiembre de 2026, 13:51)
I would really like to be the case more often. I'm a cheese eating vegetarian and I have to look on the ingredients every time I buy cheese. Some brands will even switch from animal to microbial rennet and viceversa within the same product without warning.
I cut way back on cheese because of the salt, also it's expensive and high in calories. I could easily go through a large block (or even two--8000 calories!) of sharp cheddar in a week, and that was too much.
This is why I gave up red meat, and processed meat:
Here’s something you may not realize: The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classifies red meat as a Group 2A carcinogen, which is described as “probably carcinogenic to humans.” Carcinogens are substances with cancer-causing potential.
A review of studies on the relationship between red meat and cancer found that eating high levels of red meat is associated with a higher risk of:
Breast cancer Colorectal cancer Uterine cancer Hepatocellular carcinoma Lung cancer
That’s not all: Processed meats are categorized as level 1 carcinogens. This puts them in the same category as cigarettes and asbestos and means they’re known to increase your risk of cancer.
White meat and vegetarian options are your best bets for a healthy lifestyle. But the benefits and consequences of red meat often boil down to what you’re eating, how often and how much.
*(GASGÛL) They were once men; healthy men. Then Tongue the Deceiver gave to them nine rounds of Cheese. Blinded by their hunger, they took them without question, one by one falling into gassness. Now they are slaves to his will. They are the Gasgûl: Fartwraiths, neither living nor dead. At all times they feel the presence of the Cheese, drawn to the power of the lactose. They will never stop farting. *
Esta entrada fue editada (miércoles, 9 de septiembre de 2026, 7:34)
My eggs are sourced from a dozen of the most spoiled hens I've ever seen. They have a half acre of bugs, grass, and weeds to run around in. They are more pets than livestock.
I mean the critique of cheese (honey and eggs, too) is that they, like all foods, are statistically near always sourced from factory farming methods that are harmful to all involved. The only difference is that wheat isn't sentient enough for ethical consideration. I'm glad your chickens are treated well. I'm glad you ethically source your eggs. Being "one of the good ones" isn't a defense though; we still need to end factory farming as it exists today.
Im doing what I can to avoid factory farmed food, because for all the talk of ending factory farming I have yet to see any progress outside of angry internet comments. Im going for harm reduction in my own life.
Someone who cuts most meat out of their diet is closer to a vegetarian than they are to the average diet. But saying they are vegetarian most of the time is going to upset a lot of people.
Dairy is the most challenging thing to give up. There are good alternatives - particularly when they're made of nuts and seeds that have been fermented traditionally - but they're good in their own way, don't expect them to be the same.
The stuff made out of almost pure coconut oil is universally disappointing, and coconut is arguably not vegan given the environmental footprint and resulting animal endangerment.
I mean, Daiyo is an example of the artificial-basically-mostly-coconut-oil cheeze I mentioned previously. Most stuff that you can find in the average grocery store is going to suck. Have you tried anything along the lines of, say, this almost award-winning plant-based cheese? Stuff like that is way better, but again, unique. Don't expect it to be the same, although things may be changing soon since people have figured out how to get one of the key dairy proteins from non-animal sources.
There's also homemade stuff, which varies. It's pretty easy to make super creamy mac and cheese with plant-based sources only, for instance.
One of my close friends went vegan right around the pandemic beginning, when everything first started shutting down. Our local bar shut down the day of St Patrick's day so we invited him over to our place instead for shitty beer with green food dye (it was 3 of us total and we worked in close proximity daily, AND we were very pro-mask)
He used it as an opportunity to introduce us to a vegan version of the cheesy spinach and artichoke dip from like Applebees/Chilis/insert old people restaurant here, but it was made with cashews.
It took him an hour but OH MY LAWD my husband and I still talk about that dip to this day as non-vegans. Better than anything we've ordered at a restaurant. We tell everyone about that shit.
As a non-German living in Germany. Abendbrot goes hard. Like I didn't expect it to be so enjoyable, but it's tasty, easy, and cheap. I know it's traditional to include cold cuts, but I usually just use cheeses and veggies. Fucking tasty
Especially funny because while there are other things vegetarians will eat that vegans won't (Other dairy, eggs), cheese is actually physically addictive because the same protein that makes it curdle breaks down through digestion into a substance that acts like dopamine. It really is the "one ring" of veganism and often the last / hardest thing to give up when one goes vegan.
TipRing
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public Messageraspberriesareyummy
in reply to TipRing • • • Public MessageSpoiler: milk cows get murdered as well.
A milk cow is productive for about 5 years, after which they usually get slaughtered for pet food.
In that time, they need to have about 3 calves, to continue producing "good returns" amount of milk daily. Two of those calves are not needed to replace the cow, so they get - guess what? - slaughtered and processed to pet food.
Stupid me grew up next to a milk farm and didn't realize that until way later than I care to admit.
Also, I still eat cheese (reduced amounts) and that's a moral dilemma for me.
kolmaskommentoija
in reply to raspberriesareyummy • • • Public Messageraspberriesareyummy
in reply to kolmaskommentoija • • • Public MessageCould be - but that would also mean taking milk away from the calves for a while. Not sure how much milk a cow would be able to continue to give and what the quality would be after the calf has had enough to outgrow infancy.
Now eggs however, those could be absolutely produced without animal suffering. Just be willing to pay more for the eggs so that hens can live free range in natural environments, and still get to continue living when they produce less or even no more eggs until they die from natural causes.
I don't see a big ethical problem with snatching an unfertilised egg, considering that hens are able to lay like one egg a day. They won't miss it if you take away a bunch of them and let them breed out the odd one.
kolmaskommentoija
in reply to raspberriesareyummy • • • Public MessageThis is doable, especially with the cows, that have been bred to produce milk. You do not even need to separate the mom and calf, for more than a moment, to milk, so we do know it is possible. You just get less milk, than by taking the calf away, so it is not profitable in comparison. There are other problems though, like they should be able to feed mostly by pasture grazing, which takes a lot of land, and if you do not kill some of the cows and bulls for food, you will have way too many... etc.
And with eggs - yes. The EU standards for "bio" eggs are already better (very far from perfect though), so it might be possible to do profitably even. A big ethical problem with factory farming chickens right now, though, is the process of mass producing the egg-laying chickens themselves. Hens are kept, but the male chicks might be ju
... Mostrar másThis is doable, especially with the cows, that have been bred to produce milk. You do not even need to separate the mom and calf, for more than a moment, to milk, so we do know it is possible. You just get less milk, than by taking the calf away, so it is not profitable in comparison. There are other problems though, like they should be able to feed mostly by pasture grazing, which takes a lot of land, and if you do not kill some of the cows and bulls for food, you will have way too many... etc.
And with eggs - yes. The EU standards for "bio" eggs are already better (very far from perfect though), so it might be possible to do profitably even. A big ethical problem with factory farming chickens right now, though, is the process of mass producing the egg-laying chickens themselves. Hens are kept, but the male chicks might be just thrown into a shredder. Even if all of them were raised, a lot of the cocks would have to be killed, since there would be carnage otherwise, as you cannot keep them together, and you have to have multiple hens more than cocks in a flock. This also applies if you keep chickens in your backyard, so there are always excess cocks being given away, that nobody wants, and many end up as food.
raspberriesareyummy
in reply to kolmaskommentoija • • • Public MessagePoor roosters. I believe the best solution for that would be the "in ovo" gender detection. One article here: sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003257912300425X - in an ethical egg production scenario, the quoted machine learning could actually be viable: the false positive roosters are simply lucky, and get raised to adulthood / live a happy life ;)
If the reason for false positives is not self-enforcing through genetics, they could even be the normal "fathers of the next generation".
Assuming, of course, the false positive rate can be lowered enough.
Re: milk - I have to say, for drinking, if you find a good brand, oat milk can be very tasty - I personally even think it tastes better in coffee / cappuccino than regular milk. And cheese - I just happen to have bought this hour for the first time a delicious vegan "Brie" variant: vanozza.de
... Mostrar másPoor roosters. I believe the best solution for that would be the "in ovo" gender detection. One article here: sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003257912300425X - in an ethical egg production scenario, the quoted machine learning could actually be viable: the false positive roosters are simply lucky, and get raised to adulthood / live a happy life ;)
If the reason for false positives is not self-enforcing through genetics, they could even be the normal "fathers of the next generation".
Assuming, of course, the false positive rate can be lowered enough.
Re: milk - I have to say, for drinking, if you find a good brand, oat milk can be very tasty - I personally even think it tastes better in coffee / cappuccino than regular milk. And cheese - I just happen to have bought this hour for the first time a delicious vegan "Brie" variant: vanozza.de/en/produkte.html#brie-pfeffer
I am positively surprised, after the last couple of tries I no longer thought I would see the day - but this one is actually yummy!
For oat milk: tastewise best is Oatly Barista, but Oatly is in bed with investors from fascistan, so I go for the second best option which is also delicious: Lidl house brand vemondo, barista drink. Important: it must be the one produced by Grønvang (gronvang.dk/?lang=en) - the one by Green & White from Vlissingen/NL tastes bland / watery in comparison.
Our Products | VANOZZA - Vegan Cheese Alternatives
VANOZZA FoodsTipRing
in reply to raspberriesareyummy • • • Public Messageraspberriesareyummy
in reply to TipRing • • • Public MessageTipRing
in reply to raspberriesareyummy • • • Public Messageterranoid
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public MessageThere are better fake cheeses these days. It's easier to give it up than it ever was. And tons of pizzerias now offer vegan cheese pizzas.
But honestly giving up beef alone should be commended, just for environmental/climate reasons.
hOrni
in reply to terranoid • • • Public MessageI haven't seen fake cheese that tastes good yet. A good tip is not to try to make vegan food taste like non vegan. Just enjoy the vegan foods as they are.
PS I'm trying the whole "give up beef" thing plus "be vegan one day of the week".
stoy
in reply to hOrni • • • Public MessageAs a non vegan/vegetarian, I agree fully. By trying to replicate something else, the result often appears like a worse alternative.
I enjoy plenty of vegetarian and vegan foods, but don't try and tell me that a plant based burger tastes the same as a normal burger, that just ruins the experience.
Play to your own strengths and don't pretend to be something you are not, by doing that you reduce the stigma of vegan and vegetarian labels becoming associated with lower quality.
The concept of being vegetarian one day a week sounds like a brilliant idea, not sure that I would go the entire way to vegan across a full day, but a few vegan meals in a week wouldn't be so hard.
I_Has_A_Hat
in reply to stoy • • • Public MessageGo to burger king. Get a regular whopper and an impossible whopper. They are literally indistinguishable. Well, until an hour later when the impossible whopper gives you a ton of gas lol.
Bluewing
in reply to I_Has_A_Hat • • • Public MessageThat's a straight up case of dumping enough crap on top of each patty that you can't tell what the hell you are eating anyway.
Try cooking each patty with nothing more than a bit of salt and eat them plain with nothing else, not even a bun, and then tell me you can't taste the difference.
I_Has_A_Hat
in reply to Bluewing • • • Public MessageBluewing
in reply to I_Has_A_Hat • • • Public MessageI_Has_A_Hat
in reply to Bluewing • • • Public MessageBluewing
in reply to I_Has_A_Hat • • • Public MessageI_Has_A_Hat
in reply to Bluewing • • • Public MessageBluewing
in reply to I_Has_A_Hat • • • Public Message[deleted]
in reply to I_Has_A_Hat • • • Public MessageWhoppers have a ton of toppings. Lettuce, onion, tomato, mayo, ketchup, and I'm probably forgetting something. The only real taste from the meat is the grilling smoke.
I've had impossible burgers and while they are a bland they did a decent job on texture, so enough toppings make up for it just like with cheap beef.
jackod
in reply to stoy • • • Public MessageWhile I understand your argument and fully agree that there are plenty of normal vegan dishes that hold there own, this point always comes from the non vegans 😅
Meat tastes good, and going vegan often means giving up favourite dishes that you grew up with. Having the mock alternatives means that when you do get that itch, you can still kind of scratch it. I also dont think it is fair to write them all of as inferior, there are some pretty incredible options these days.
[deleted]
in reply to jackod • • • Public MessageNo, having a mock alternative doesn't sceatch the itch, it just reinforces how much better the real version of that thing was. While I haven't tried them all, I have tried a lot due to recommendations by friends and every one has been like comparing turkey bacon to regular bacon. No, it isn't even close.
I enjoy a lot of dishes that are vegetarian or vegan because they play to the strengths of their ingredients without pretending to be something else. Replicating the format is fine, many kinds of dishes share similar formats, but trying to compare it to something specific is a bad idea. I have had some vegsn sausages thst were great for example, but they are their own thing snd not comparable to beef, pork, or combination sausages and there is such a wide variety of meat sausages there is no need to compare it to anything specific. It can be its own thing!
BlaestEgnen
in reply to [deleted] • • • Public Messagea big part is the perception of what you're used to, I rarely eat meat nowadays and when I do it tends to be game.
My burger patties have gotten to a point where I prefer them to any meat alternative, I'm not saying they're the same. Outside of serving the same purpose in a burger, but it's pretty wild I scoff at minced red deer meat now - It just doesn't carry the same umfph
skidicarus
in reply to [deleted] • • • Public Messagerayf
in reply to hOrni • • • Public MessageJiggle_Physics
in reply to rayf • • • Public MessageNon vegetarian here. A vegan friend served me some vegan burger and I was absolutely shocked at how good it was. Did it taste exactly like beef? No. However it hit most of the spots to sate a craving I may have for one. The vegan cheese pretty much perfectly emulated american "cheese", which I don't personally use, but on a burger has a specific place. I have also introduce TVP into my normal diet. If you cook it right it can act as a very good alternative to crumbled ground beef. My friend makes a vegan chili dip that, if not told, almost everyone just assumes contains beef.
Other vegan cheeses I have tried are awful, even some expensive ones. My best friend doesn't process animal protein, so was basically forced into eating vegan style. We have made some recipes from chefs online, mostly using various types of mushrooms, that are to emulate steak, that have been very good.
sem
in reply to Jiggle_Physics • • • Public MessageCan you find the name of this cheese?
A local chili place has been using tvp in their veggie chili for literally decades. It is perfection
StaticFalconar
in reply to terranoid • • • Public Messageprotist
in reply to StaticFalconar • • • Public MessagelookingforanALFpolycule
in reply to terranoid • • • Public MessageYes, but the post is about veganism, which is the ethical principle that it’s wrong to exploit animals. Cows enslaved for milk are in most cases worse off than those enslaved for their flesh as they are repeatedly impregnated, have their children killed, and are still slaughtered at a fraction of their lifespan just like the flesh cows.
hans
in reply to lookingforanALFpolycule • • • Public Messagearrow74
in reply to lookingforanALFpolycule • • • Public MessageTheMinions
in reply to terranoid • • • Public MessageMy child has dairy allergies.
The fake cheeses are just okay at best.
Funkt4st1c
in reply to TheMinions • • • Public MessageDaiya smells like dirty socks, especially when heated
My wife is allergic to dairy and it throws me off every time
remon
in reply to Funkt4st1c • • • Public Messagezod000
in reply to Funkt4st1c • • • Public MessageMs. ArmoredThirteen
in reply to terranoid • • • Public MessageI've never cut beef out entirely but it is surprisingly easy to dramatically reduce how much one uses. Nearly everything that's good with beef is also good with other meats. I also found doing meatless Mondays to be a great way to experiment with vegetarian/vegan dishes without feeling like I was missing out on anything and then I could take that knowledge into other days
I think a big problem is a lot of people are not confident in their ability to cook. They maybe know how to make a couple of their favorite childhood dishes and a couple things they picked up along the way, maybe. It's hard to replace a burger with a portabello if you don't know how to critically approach cooking temps and times so it ends up awful, or trying to cook a passable ratatouille and not knowing how to use a knife or having any spices in the cupboard
imetators
in reply to terranoid • • • Public MessageJustEnoughDucks
in reply to terranoid • • • Public Messagearctanthrope
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public Messagetrxxruraxvr
Unknown parent • • • Public MessageJelleWho
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public Message🍉 DrRedOctopus 🐙🍉
in reply to JelleWho • • • Public MessageJelleWho
in reply to 🍉 DrRedOctopus 🐙🍉 • • • Public MessageAs a person who check all cheese in the supermarket for this. The current state (EU/NL) is almost 60%, 60% of the cheese in our supermarket is without murdering baby cows. Which I up from last year, and it has been trending up for a while.
I have no clue how other countries are doing, my guess us worse. Some france people still label 'Fish' as 'Vegan'
this_jury_is_hung
in reply to JelleWho • • • Public MessageThat number moves much closer to 0% if you start counting the baby cows killed in order to keep their mothers perpetually lactating, rather than just those whose bodies were used as a direct ingredient.
A cow will be impregnated 6-8 times during her life on a typical dairy farm, before she is killed af half her natural lifespan to be replaced by a younger cow. One of those baby cows will be raised as that replacement cow, the rest will be killed shortly after birth.
Killing baby cows is an inherent part of cow-milk production.
hans
in reply to this_jury_is_hung • • • Public Messagedavepleasebehave
in reply to hans • • • Public Messagehans
in reply to davepleasebehave • • • Public Messagehardly any dairy calves end up as veal.
::: spoiler the math
ers.usda.gov/webdocs/DataFiles/48685/milkcowsandprod.xlsx?v=1413.4
catalog.data.gov/dataset/livestock-meat-domestic-data/resource/257788c4-e153-4712-abf3-f2f339bbefec
4.722204129486094
:::
this_jury_is_hung
in reply to hans • • • Public MessageIt's highly market-senstive what happens to them, but I have previously worked on dairy farms in NZ and AU, and in both countries, calves(except replacement heifers) that get raised at all are a rounding error, maybe a handful per farm that are kept for personal slaughter and consumption.
If the bobby-calf (aka veal) market is paying well enough, then they are shipped off for slaughter at ~4 days old. If the market doesnt pay well enough to justify 4 days of rearing costs, then they are killed immediately and sold for their skins.
hans
in reply to this_jury_is_hung • • • Public MessageMinnesotaGoddam
in reply to hans • • • Public Messagehans
in reply to MinnesotaGoddam • • • Public MessageHow long does the average dairy cow live? - Alberta Milk
Alberta MilkMinnesotaGoddam
in reply to hans • • • Public Messagehans
in reply to MinnesotaGoddam • • • Public Messageit's possible your operation was not average, and most dairy cows only live 5 years.
anecdotes are not data.
MinnesotaGoddam
in reply to hans • • • Public Messagetoomanypancakes
in reply to hans • • • Public Messagehans
in reply to toomanypancakes • • • Public Messageparlaptie
in reply to 🍉 DrRedOctopus 🐙🍉 • • • Public Message🍉 DrRedOctopus 🐙🍉
in reply to parlaptie • • • Public Messageulterno
in reply to JelleWho • • • Public Messagesanzky
in reply to ulterno • • • Public MessageSome brands will even switch from animal to microbial rennet and viceversa within the same product without warning.
yermaw
in reply to JelleWho • • • Public MessageThunderComplex
in reply to JelleWho • • • Public MessageAeonFelis
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public MessageCapt. Wolf
in reply to AeonFelis • • • Public Messagebeejboytyson
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public MessageFatVegan
in reply to beejboytyson • • • Public MessageWorldsDumbestMan
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public Messagesurewhynotlem
in reply to WorldsDumbestMan • • • Public MessageUnderpantsWeevil
in reply to WorldsDumbestMan • • • Public MessageImagining this overlayed on a man with a big smile on his face.
onion_trial
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public Messageremon
in reply to onion_trial • • • Public Messagemacniel
in reply to remon • • • Public MessageTriasha
in reply to macniel • • • Public Messagepega_sus
in reply to remon • • • Public Messagesurewhynotlem
in reply to onion_trial • • • Public MessageAs with politics, purity culture leads to being ineffective.
Coalitions are important if you want to get anything done.
yermaw
in reply to onion_trial • • • Public MessageNo unity. No strength. No true scotsman.
Fight, fuckos, Fight!
aedaz
in reply to onion_trial • • • Public MessageTrackinDaKraken
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public MessageI cut way back on cheese because of the salt, also it's expensive and high in calories. I could easily go through a large block (or even two--8000 calories!) of sharp cheddar in a week, and that was too much.
This is why I gave up red meat, and processed meat:
health.clevelandclinic.org/is-red-meat-bad-for-you
Is Red Meat Bad for You?
Cleveland ClinicMattW03
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public MessageMinnesotaGoddam
in reply to MattW03 • • • Public MessageComradePenguin
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public Message"I could never be a vegetarian/vegan because of bacon"
"Ok, then eat vegetarian AND also eat bacon then?"
beejboytyson
in reply to ComradePenguin • • • Public MessageLittle1Lost
in reply to ComradePenguin • • • Public Messagemult
in reply to Little1Lost • • • Public MessageIS IT????
I thought flexitarian was someone who can perform very flexible oral sex. 🤯
Doomsider
in reply to mult • • • Public MessageCADmonkey
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public MessageI like eggs. And baking.
My eggs are sourced from a dozen of the most spoiled hens I've ever seen. They have a half acre of bugs, grass, and weeds to run around in. They are more pets than livestock.
Garbagio
in reply to CADmonkey • • • Public MessageCADmonkey
in reply to Garbagio • • • Public Messageobnomus
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public Message𝕲𝖑𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍🔻𝕯𝖃 (he/him)
in reply to obnomus • • • Public Messageobnomus
in reply to 𝕲𝖑𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍🔻𝕯𝖃 (he/him) • • • Public Message𝕲𝖑𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍🔻𝕯𝖃 (he/him)
in reply to obnomus • • • Public Messageobnomus
in reply to 𝕲𝖑𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍🔻𝕯𝖃 (he/him) • • • Public MessageThis means Kekw.
𝕲𝖑𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍🔻𝕯𝖃 (he/him)
in reply to obnomus • • • Public Messageobnomus
in reply to 𝕲𝖑𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍🔻𝕯𝖃 (he/him) • • • Public MessageUnderpantsWeevil
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public MessageListen, I'm going to cast it into the fire, sure.
But then it's going to get all goopy and crispy and I'm going to pull it back out again to eat it.
unalivejoy
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public Messagemyyass
in reply to unalivejoy • • • Public MessageOmega
Unknown parent • • • Public MessageAnimalsDream
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public MessageDairy is the most challenging thing to give up. There are good alternatives - particularly when they're made of nuts and seeds that have been fermented traditionally - but they're good in their own way, don't expect them to be the same.
The stuff made out of almost pure coconut oil is universally disappointing, and coconut is arguably not vegan given the environmental footprint and resulting animal endangerment.
VitoRobles
in reply to AnimalsDream • • • Public MessageAnimalsDream
in reply to VitoRobles • • • Public MessageI mean, Daiyo is an example of the artificial-basically-mostly-coconut-oil cheeze I mentioned previously. Most stuff that you can find in the average grocery store is going to suck. Have you tried anything along the lines of, say, this almost award-winning plant-based cheese? Stuff like that is way better, but again, unique. Don't expect it to be the same, although things may be changing soon since people have figured out how to get one of the key dairy proteins from non-animal sources.
There's also homemade stuff, which varies. It's pretty easy to make super creamy mac and cheese with plant-based sources only, for instance.
ParadeofCorpses
in reply to AnimalsDream • • • Public MessageOne of my close friends went vegan right around the pandemic beginning, when everything first started shutting down. Our local bar shut down the day of St Patrick's day so we invited him over to our place instead for shitty beer with green food dye (it was 3 of us total and we worked in close proximity daily, AND we were very pro-mask)
He used it as an opportunity to introduce us to a vegan version of the cheesy spinach and artichoke dip from like Applebees/Chilis/insert old people restaurant here, but it was made with cashews.
It took him an hour but OH MY LAWD my husband and I still talk about that dip to this day as non-vegans. Better than anything we've ordered at a restaurant. We tell everyone about that shit.
Agent641
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public MessageI must be genetically predisposed to veganism because I genuinely don't like cheese or bacon very much.
Still really like lamb and chicken though, so 🤷
ComfortableRaspberry
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public Messagewebghost0101
in reply to ComfortableRaspberry • • • Public Messagegrranibal
in reply to webghost0101 • • • Public Messageremon
in reply to grranibal • • • Public Messagearrow74
in reply to grranibal • • • Public Messagegrranibal
in reply to arrow74 • • • Public Messageadr1an
in reply to arrow74 • • • Public Messageinfinitesunrise
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public MessageBL4CKP1XX13 [they/it]
in reply to infinitesunrise • • • Public Messageinfinitesunrise
in reply to BL4CKP1XX13 [they/it] • • • Public MessageAnimalsDream
in reply to BL4CKP1XX13 [they/it] • • • Public MessageStolas
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public MessageCarlos Solís
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • Public MessageArachnidbrilliant
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public Messagesem
in reply to OriginEnergySux • • • Public Message