Linus Torvalds Working On A Hefty Linux Kernel Improvement With Claude Code
Linus Torvalds Working On A Hefty Linux Kernel Improvement With Claude Code
Linux creator Linus Torvalds has been known to use AI to help with kernel debugging and outside of the kernel tree has also done some vibe coding with Google's Antigravitywww.phoronix.com
Solumbran
in reply to cm0002 • • • Public MessageAlk
in reply to Solumbran • • • Public Messagespartanatreyu
in reply to Alk • • • Public Messagebad1080
in reply to spartanatreyu • • • Public MessageCarlos Solís
in reply to cm0002 • • Public Messagemrbigmouth502
in reply to cm0002 • • • Public Messageendofline
in reply to mrbigmouth502 • • • Public MessageFizz
in reply to mrbigmouth502 • • • Public Messageheliotrope
in reply to Fizz • • • Public MessageI ran it all through Slopscore and consulted open-slopware, and here are the results:
Fizz
in reply to heliotrope • • • Public Messageheliotrope
in reply to Fizz • • • Public MessageProdigalFrog
in reply to heliotrope • • • Public MessageMangoCats
in reply to mrbigmouth502 • • • Public Messagemindbleach
in reply to mrbigmouth502 • • • Public Messagewebghost0101
in reply to cm0002 • • • Public MessageAlmost anyone can cut and paste a face on a different body using a classic photo editor.
It still takes a profesional to do it in a way that delivers a quality result.
Linus Torvalds is a professional, the linux terminal is his baby, if we can trust anyone on this, its him.
The amateurs using ai to produce slop that resembles what we perceive as quality, is sometimes hard to tell but 25 years ago people though half life 1 looked insanely realistic and that graphics could not possibly look any more real. Over time our brains will adapt and we will be able to tell slop from real work in a heartbeat. I bet most people here can already tell if a mail was written by an llm and not audited by a human with ease.
Havatra
in reply to webghost0101 • • • Public MessageI can vouch for that: As a programmer, I can generally see both programming AI and general LLM use if it was copy-pasted. I know a guy who isn't a programmer who've used Claude Code to make an app, and things are working, but it's sooo clear even to a junior SE that it's vibe-coded. There's a clear lack of consistency, architecture, maintainability, and general human readability.
However, if the code/text was reviewed and edited by a capable human programmer, it's incredibly difficult to single out what is a product of AI and not.
Actual programmers who understand and can write code themselves who use AI simply as a tool, NOT a shortcut, will produce indistinguishable code. Linus is an incredibly smart and capable guy, and for specific uses, I'm confident in him using this tool responsibly.
(The ethics of AI use is a different topic however...)
Johnnyvibrant
in reply to Havatra • • • Public Messagethreeonefour
in reply to webghost0101 • • • Public Messagenixfreak
in reply to threeonefour • • • Public MessageMangoCats
in reply to nixfreak • • • Public MessagePretty much the whole point of every invention in the industrial revolution.
Croquette
in reply to MangoCats • • • Public MessageAbsolutely not. Lots of thing were created to make jobs faster and more importantly faster.
Take the simple washing machine for example. Early iteration, before electric washing machine, caused a lot of injuries because people would get their arm stuck in the machine's mechanism.
So by creating the modern washing machine, we freed lot of time for people to do less menial stuff and made their life safer by not having your arm pushing clothes through a dangerous machine.
MangoCats
in reply to Croquette • • • Public Messageor the cotton gin, or the steam engine...
Now one wo/man + machine can do the work of ten wo/men... and 9 wo/men were freed up to "do less menial stuff" - and not get paid (or enslaved) for it.
Eldritch
in reply to threeonefour • • • Public MessageMangoCats
in reply to Eldritch • • • Public MessageEldritch
in reply to MangoCats • • • Public MessageDefinitely. I just hope that sooner rather than later it's possible for them all to move over to local open source models. Supporting wasteful content thieves is not sustainable.
That and that all the GPU manufacturers Etc have their sound blaster moment. These days a lot of socs have quite powerful Graphics accelerators on them. At some point, someone's going to release a bit of silicon equivalent to the AC 97. May not have been able to compete with sound blaster on the ridiculously high end of the market. But was good enough for 99% of tasks. So that most people don't even remember sound blaster anymore. Even though they still technically exist.
MangoCats
in reply to Eldritch • • • Public MessageI have been using "onboard graphics" professionally in our products, including products which do 3D rendering, since 2014.
I think GPUs have a little longer life than sound blaster cards still in them, massive arrays of relatively simple CPUs have more purposes than just graphics rendering.
PlexSheep
in reply to Eldritch • • • Public MessageI searched what sound blaster is, but I don't really understand it. Are they a company that made audio cards in the ancient times? I think I remember some people said that having audio cards was not standard.
Their website seems to have weird hardware targeted at gamers.
Maybe they sell audio interfaces? But I'm confused why gamers of all people would be the target group. I got an audio interface for my guitar myself and some MIDI things.
Eldritch
in reply to PlexSheep • • • Public MessageBack in the DOS days and early windows days. They were one of the gold standards for PC audio. Even if you didn't own a sound blaster card, you likely owned a clone that emulated one. They were the bees knees so to speak when it came to PC gaming.
But by the late 90s the company had spread itself so thin on branding and other things. Sound blaster CDROM drives? Yep. Sound blaster video cards? Yep. Etc Etc Etc. They tried to parlay being a lucky defacto standard into something else. Wanted to be a premium brand. Prices go up, quality goes down. Kinda like Nvidia now. Fake frames, AI slop, shitting on traditional customers.
Turn of the century and a standard set in 97 finally started rolling out on consumer motherboards. No longer when you bought your computer if you wanted it to make anything more than basic beeps boops and buzzes. Did you have to go out and spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get an ad in card. It was on board. On the motherboard.
The newest computer I own is an early ryzen from the previous Dark Times. Not to be confused with these dark ti
... Mostrar másBack in the DOS days and early windows days. They were one of the gold standards for PC audio. Even if you didn't own a sound blaster card, you likely owned a clone that emulated one. They were the bees knees so to speak when it came to PC gaming.
But by the late 90s the company had spread itself so thin on branding and other things. Sound blaster CDROM drives? Yep. Sound blaster video cards? Yep. Etc Etc Etc. They tried to parlay being a lucky defacto standard into something else. Wanted to be a premium brand. Prices go up, quality goes down. Kinda like Nvidia now. Fake frames, AI slop, shitting on traditional customers.
Turn of the century and a standard set in 97 finally started rolling out on consumer motherboards. No longer when you bought your computer if you wanted it to make anything more than basic beeps boops and buzzes. Did you have to go out and spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get an ad in card. It was on board. On the motherboard.
The newest computer I own is an early ryzen from the previous Dark Times. Not to be confused with these dark times. So I don't have first-hand experience. But it is my understanding that Intel integrated Graphics isn't quite the joke is that it used to be. Just a bastard stepchild that Intel can't decide if they really want to support of not. And some AMD chips have an APU on it which is similar. But still chokes under anything very intense. It's getting close. But just not quite. Give us a truly standardized setup with the basic power of a mid 2010s graphics accelerator and vulkan api, most people would be in business.
Honestly I'm hoping something along this line happens and becomes common with risc-v systems. Like Mali with arm.
PlexSheep
in reply to Eldritch • • • Public MessageThank you for the explanation.
I have a laptop from 2022 with an Intel CPU. It's pretty good to what laptops did last decade. You can play Factorio, Minecraft and RimWorld for example in pretty reasonable graphics. It's not that great of course, but it works fine, especially if my laptop didn't have heating issues (framework 12)
mindbleach
in reply to threeonefour • • • Public MessageOnly in the sense using a calculator makes you worse at long division. You're still doing math.
Every pearl-clutching article like 'doctors got worse at spotting cancer when we gave them a tool and then took it away' is only measuring before and after. None of them seem interested in asking: how much more cancer did they find, with the tool?
bad1080
in reply to mindbleach • • • Public Messagemindbleach
in reply to bad1080 • • • Public MessageWeird how software engineers are better at 'being replaced' than novices. They seem to get better results by knowing what it's supposed to be doing.
What a funny coincidence.
bad1080
in reply to threeonefour • • • Public Messagevcresearch.berkeley.edu/news/using-ai-just-10-minutes-erodes-your-ability-persist-hard-things
Using AI for Just 10 Minutes Erodes Your Ability to Persist at Hard Things | Research UC Berkeley
UC Berkeley Office of the Vice Chancellor for Researchmindbleach
in reply to bad1080 • • • Public MessageThey should run the test with calculators, because they'll see the same effect. Turns out that giving people a tool to make things trivial, and then taking that tool away, halfway through the goddamn exam, is a lot more frustrating than just asking them to do some algebra on paper.
'Bicycling for just ten miles makes walking back seem like a pain in the ass.'
bad1080
in reply to mindbleach • • • Public MessageAI is not a tool it is a replacement, there’s no skill in using AI
da_cow (she/her)
in reply to bad1080 • • • Public MessageIf you give up all critical thinking to the LLM, than it is indeed a replacement, but there are lots of ways you can use AI without giving up all your critical thinking.
And it always takes skill to be able to evaluate the results of an LLM.
bad1080
in reply to da_cow (she/her) • • • Public Messagepadreug
in reply to threeonefour • • • Public MessageYou don't need evidence, go try it yourself. It's like using a calculator instead of crunching out a math problem yourself.
There are places where it's useful and if you're smart you'll also keep your brain balanced and sharp.
Not everyone will survive this shift in reality - NPC's are all around.
If you want my honest answer, it requires a community of diverse people you trust so that the people who are capable of exploring this territory can figure out how to use it and it's our duty to keep them from going into the void.
resipsaloquitur
in reply to webghost0101 • • • Public MessageIt’s already too late. He’s gone down the rabbit hole.
nialv7
in reply to webghost0101 • • • Public Messagewebghost0101
in reply to nialv7 • • • Public MessageMy subjective opinion is that yeah it is unethical, but not more then so many other things we normalised.
Systematicly slaughtering animals for meat for example.
I am not a vegitarian by any means. You cannot fight on all fronts at once and have to pick your own battles in context of your own lifes challenges.
Cars poison the air and kill many people, i dont drive a car for that reason because thats a fight i can fight. I have sensativities with food, so i am not cutting out meat. (I aim to do so some day)
I moved to linux some years ago by getting help from an llm which requires datacenters build by malicious companies. I don't have a google or meta account and my cloud and media is hosted locally on recycled hardware. Where for others those services require datacenters build by malicious companies.
Life is various shades of grey.
Aeri
in reply to webghost0101 • • • Public Messagewebghost0101
in reply to Aeri • • • Public MessageMaybe in some perspective but could not be further from mine.
All non personal Informations should be free.
Code is just information, who is one person to tell me i cannot arrange letters and words in a certain order because they did it first.
In context, i was already firmly opposed to the concept of copyright long before llms became consumer accesible. Imitation is the greatest honor someone csn receive.
I often get a question about “means to live”when i mention that. In short i think all people deserve the means to live comfortably regardless of economic output or labor.
I dont propose to change the current system overnight though, i would need to write a couple of books to fully explain the gradual transformation to the zero profit society i envision.
Aeri
in reply to webghost0101 • • • Public MessageI think you've derived the wrong point from my stance.
Theft. In my eyes. Is on a sort of sliding scale with regard to ethics.
Stealing from an individual is reprehensible. Stealing from a corporation that nets more than one billion dollars annually? You have a moral imperative to take whatever you can get from them.
I day "Steal" more affectionately with respect to coding. Context matters deeply. Data should be free dah. And the socialism. Good.
webghost0101
in reply to Aeri • • • Public MessageOh sure, thats a miscommunication error then.
I wouldnt call it stealing myself but i can find myself in your definition.
entwine
in reply to nialv7 • • • Public MessageYes, and the people doing mental gymnastics to defend it are unprincipled losers and/or cucks to the billionaires.
The models used to generate code were built by stealing from us. Fuck whatever stupid opinions you might have on copyright; you were exploited. Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Sam Altman, etc are making money, corrupting our democracy, and destroying our way of life because they stole our work. They wouldn't be able to do that without the massive theft of labor they've committed, or if our government actually enforced the laws that they broke, and are currently still breaking.
Why should these scumbags (or anyone) be able to steal and profit from our labor? Are we going to accept our assigned roles as mere cattle for the megacriminals? Will you be happy when your daughter is conscripted as a "breeder" for Elon Musk? Or when your son dies fighting in a war for resources so we can build more data centers?
Or how about when the subsidized tokens run out, you can't afford to use the models you've become
... Mostrar másYes, and the people doing mental gymnastics to defend it are unprincipled losers and/or cucks to the billionaires.
The models used to generate code were built by stealing from us. Fuck whatever stupid opinions you might have on copyright; you were exploited. Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Sam Altman, etc are making money, corrupting our democracy, and destroying our way of life because they stole our work. They wouldn't be able to do that without the massive theft of labor they've committed, or if our government actually enforced the laws that they broke, and are currently still breaking.
Why should these scumbags (or anyone) be able to steal and profit from our labor? Are we going to accept our assigned roles as mere cattle for the megacriminals? Will you be happy when your daughter is conscripted as a "breeder" for Elon Musk? Or when your son dies fighting in a war for resources so we can build more data centers?
Or how about when the subsidized tokens run out, you can't afford to use the models you've become unable to function without, and are forced to go work in an Amazon warehouse or copper mine or some shit because you eagerly and enthusiastically contributed to the monopolization of your own labor, and were too stupid to realize it before it was too late?
butWhatIfiCan
in reply to entwine • • • Public MessageI don't like using the word "theft" because it implies this is primarily a property rights issue, and IMO it's much more of a labor rights and moral rights issue. This ain't gonna be solved by just enforcing existing copyright laws when employers, publishers, social media companies, etc. can effectively force creators to waive their rights as copyright holders. (Sign away your rights to AI training or you won't get a record deal! Sign away your rights to AI training or you won't get any work at all!) I tend to think we should focus on bringing back sectoral bargaining (like what the Hollywood writers and actors did) and/or creating new laws that recognize inalienable moral rights for creators.
But otherwise, yes. I very much agree.
ulterno
in reply to webghost0101 • • • Public MessageConsidering that the word points to just about anyone who has been doing a thing for money for a while, I'd suggest you look for a better word.
webghost0101
in reply to ulterno • • • Public MessageExpert?
Gamers often use “pro” which comes from profesional, i never really saw a connection with money there.
ulterno
in reply to webghost0101 • • • Public MessageConsidering that words like "competent" or "careful" or even "perfectionist" don't apply to me and I would guess Linus is putting more effort than me, to keep his codebase clean.
Tempy
in reply to webghost0101 • • • Public MessageWe didn't think Half Life 1 looked realistic against reality, just that it was the most realistic graphics we had seen yet.
It's not like we looked at the game and went that's indistinguishable from reality.
NotMyOldRedditName
Unknown parent • • • Public MessageZexks
in reply to cm0002 • • • Public MessageFeathercrown
in reply to Zexks • • • Public MessageMangoCats
Unknown parent • • • Public MessageLess with LLMs than without. projectdiscovery.io/blog/the-vulnerability-curve-bent-with-the-ai-curve darpa.mil/news/2025/aixcc-results
The Vulnerability Curve Bent With the AI Curve — ProjectDiscovery Blog
ProjectDiscoveryNotMyOldRedditName
Unknown parent • • • Public Messagemindbleach
Unknown parent • • • Public MessageI'd definitely like someone to champion an open-weights model under 32 GB. But part of that desire is - I'm not sure they're there, yet. Local models are only a few months behind, but hoo boy, the last few months have been big.
Coding models could be tiny, but distilled versions keep preserving pop-culture knowledge and world history, when reasoning through C++ requires essentially none of that. It needs the tokenization to recognize why a comment begins "Jesus Christ." It's fine for "treat the hash like Lot's wife" to go completely over its head. Keep the weights that know a regex for e-mails, not the capitol of Florida. If it speaks a dead language I want it to be Algol.
MangoCats
Unknown parent • • • Public MessageIf the models all go up in smoke, we still have the code (and its bugs) - so let's get as many bugs out as possible as soon as possible and not accept a bunch of garbage code - as has always been the case, it's just happening gaster now.
Trainers (all over the world) are behaving badly, because they can get away with it. I'm not sure where that ends up, but it doesn't change the generated code or the discovered vulnerabilities or the fixes.
The personal data has been abused for decades already, but again - now it's easier for more actors to abuse your personal data and mine. Maybe, someday, we'll get serious about enforcing privacy policies and not just have completely toothless theater about it.
MangoCats
Unknown parent • • • Public MessageKeep it up. I'm in Floriduh so talking to our representatives is more or less like talking to a brick wall. They may accumulate counts of how many people raise an issue, but for the most part they're serving the federal administration's agenda, not listening to their constituents.
... Mostrar másI mostly ignored LLM code generation until around August of 2025 - it was still pretty raw back then, but it was showing potential for significant improvement, and since then there has been significant improvement. At this point, I find that if I ride herd on the LLM agent and keep it focused, structured, addressing technical debt frequently, etc. I can actually review the generated code more quickly and easily than similarly mature code by human developers. What is coming out of models like Opus 5.5 now is looking like what I would write if I had all the time in the world to cover all the edge cases, handle all the errors
Keep it up. I'm in Floriduh so talking to our representatives is more or less like talking to a brick wall. They may accumulate counts of how many people raise an issue, but for the most part they're serving the federal administration's agenda, not listening to their constituents.
I mostly ignored LLM code generation until around August of 2025 - it was still pretty raw back then, but it was showing potential for significant improvement, and since then there has been significant improvement. At this point, I find that if I ride herd on the LLM agent and keep it focused, structured, addressing technical debt frequently, etc. I can actually review the generated code more quickly and easily than similarly mature code by human developers. What is coming out of models like Opus 5.5 now is looking like what I would write if I had all the time in the world to cover all the edge cases, handle all the errors, do the logging and auditing and all the other "good stuff". It does explode the code for what was a simple "happy path" thing into a much larger structure that takes the real world problems into account and gets in front of them, handling them gracefully and presenting clear messages about what went wrong when unavoidable problems happen.
I guess what I'm saying is: yeah, we're still getting more code to review, but it's getting easier to review and the presence of meaningful automated tests and consistent documentation and non-rotten traceability from requirements through all that is actually resulting in lower overall workloads once you look at the big picture of what it takes to maintain code in the real world with security and other issues and not just the happy insecure proof of concept and ship it world.
Yeah, if your models are giving you inexpertly crafted code, you need to keep iterating with them until it's expertly crafted before shipping it, don't just throw up a pull request because some bogus tests passed. And, there's still a difference among models - they've all improved rather dramatically over the last 12 months, but for my purposes (coding robust, secure, safe applications) Claude's Opus and Sonnet are still "in the lead" by a pretty good margin. Other models are better at other things...
There's not enough transparency or accountability in the global business landscape for any kind of regulation to actually work. If these regulations are going to have any chance, the first step has to be true transparency - like FOSS does with open source development repositories, and more.
Keep dreaming. It would be a wonderful world, but it's far from where we are.
Like English majors can quote Keats after graduation... I'm not sure that's proof of plagarism in their other writing.
Yeah, it's been an interesting ride this cycle - seems like they're trying to tear down the government institutions in preparation for something like Palpatine disbanding the Senate... destroy all confidence by blowing up every problem of the past and flaunting it as something actively done at the highest levels. If they succeed in holding power through the upcoming mid-terms the ride is only going to get more interesting...
entwine
in reply to cm0002 • • • Public MessageI feel like this could have been avoided if Torvalds had allowed himself to use C++, instead of suffering the ritualistic pains and frustrations of C for an entire career.
Anyone would lose their love of the craft after that. AI isn't how you find it again, and it makes me sad to see. Not sad in a depressed/AI doomerism way, but sad in a "the people I looked up to are old and washed up now" way.
Alavi
in reply to entwine • • • Public Messageentwine
in reply to Alavi • • • Public MessageC++ is one of the most memed languages in computing history. The number of people who have an "opinion" on it is far, far larger than the number of people who actually work with it (or have ever worked with it...or any programming language).
My comment was kind of a joke, but not really. It's ancient history at this point, but there some not-super-solid arguments as to why the kernel bans C++.
ulterno
in reply to entwine • • • Public MessageFrom the amount of structural breakage I see in the code, I'd believe that using it for C code would be an even bigger pain.
Die4Ever
in reply to Alavi • • • Public Messageiocase
in reply to entwine • • • Public MessageAlavi
in reply to cm0002 • • • Public Messagetfm
in reply to Alavi • • • Public MessageLovable Sidekick
in reply to Alavi • • • Public Messageedgesmash
in reply to Lovable Sidekick • • • Public Messagepadreug
in reply to edgesmash • • • Public MessageOnce we take the radical responsibility that we're all a part of this problem, we can start taking logical informed steps forward that don't involve divergent emotions like hatred.
Lovable Sidekick
in reply to edgesmash • • • Public Messageedgesmash
in reply to Lovable Sidekick • • • Public MessageIf A creates B, and A is worthy of hate, it's not necessarily irrational to hate B as well. Context is important; in some cases, hating B would be irrational, in others it would be logical. Your point is too absolute to be correct.
In the specific context of the use of LLMs, it can be perfectly fair to condemn the existence and use of Claude, Copilot, ChatGPT, Grok, etc. because of the harm their billionaire owners and investors are causing to the world, even if the LLMs aren't otherwise necessarily bad.
Toga77
in reply to Alavi • • • Public MessageWe as society in general keep seeing over and never to trust those in charge to any degree without proper verification.
No one is immune to LLMs bullshit. The studies are not good, none of them that are reputable anyway.
Even if Linus is himself capable, his use and endorsement of AI is going to have the massive knock on effect of people learning less and less to code properly.
Progress for progress sake is not what Linux is even about.
So we're "move fast and break things" now by the looks of it and I don't like it.
Alavi
in reply to Toga77 • • • Public MessageA problem is that the whole train of tech is moving very fast, for good or for bad. For one thing, when bugs are being exploited by AI in mass, tge only way to fight is by using AI to fix them in mass. No other way round it. So the workload has increased immensly. And other OS are probably on their path with new capabilities and tech.
if linux doesn't stay relevant, it will become obsolete. We love linux and we want it to be the more dominant OS, while staying FOSS and ethical, right?
Linus has to keep the pace and I don't think we have a single person more competent and knowledgeable about OS than Linus. We should support him and help. Infighting and nagging will only wear down the already small and fragile FOSS community and adopters. I think it's the best thing for corporates to kick down FOSS
Toga77
in reply to Alavi • • • Public MessageSure. I don't know what the answer is, but I really don't think everyone lining up like lemmings to walk off the same cliff is the answer.
It's sad to see Linus freely advertise for fascist corporations.
It's sad to see Linus inspire thousands of aspiring coders to now learn the wrong lessons, because that's absolutely what will happen. Anyone trying to learn to code right now is proper fucked.
Linus' knowledge and other maintainers knowledge will likely die with him now because shortcuts are inevitable and people will understand less and less the more they offload.
We keep seeing this repeated, literally hundreds of times in just the past year alone. Code bases are shit, people who maintained them either fucked, or worse started vibe coding, and the LLM yes man machine isn't gonna not blow smoke up Torvalds ass just because he is Linus.
I understand your points, and I agree with most of it.
It's just, this feels like someone has a heroin addiction, and our solution is to get them hooked on alcohol.
Alavi
in reply to Toga77 • • • Public MessageToga77
in reply to Alavi • • • Public MessageMangoCats
Unknown parent • • • Public MessageThat ability to see the patterns in language, particularly the ability to distill semantic meaning and make (reasonable, if imperfect) translations from one language to a variety of others, is incredibly useful in software development activities, which are basically the task of translating natural language requests into code - usually through a multi-step process of: requirements definition, design specification, application development, test development, and constant review to ensure that all those steps are in-sync, describing the same thing.
Always.
... Mostrar másI'm tempted to make a "better buggy whip maker" crack here...
That ability to see the patterns in language, particularly the ability to distill semantic meaning and make (reasonable, if imperfect) translations from one language to a variety of others, is incredibly useful in software development activities, which are basically the task of translating natural language requests into code - usually through a multi-step process of: requirements definition, design specification, application development, test development, and constant review to ensure that all those steps are in-sync, describing the same thing.
Always.
I'm tempted to make a "better buggy whip maker" crack here...
Yeah, so Anthropic didn't pay for legitimate textbooks when they went to school, they bought cheap, illegal, Asian photocopies instead... wrong, sure. How do you make it right now? Lobotomize the students who read illegally copied books? Fine their parents for everything they are worth? Or, hold the students liable and garnish their wages in perpetuity?
Yep...
MangoCats
Unknown parent • • • Public MessageAs Forrest says: stupid is as stupid does.
Yeah, and once detected bugs and vulnerabilities (especially those with proof of concept exploits) are really easy to verify - and people who skip that step deserve all the ridicule and disrespect they can get, because they're ridiculously disrespecting the people they're reporting supposed bugs and vulnerabilities to if they haven't at least verified they're actual and not hallucinated.
... Mostrar másHere I diverge from your thinking. Deskilling has been an ever-present danger since promotion to management was invented. S
As Forrest says: stupid is as stupid does.
Yeah, and once detected bugs and vulnerabilities (especially those with proof of concept exploits) are really easy to verify - and people who skip that step deserve all the ridicule and disrespect they can get, because they're ridiculously disrespecting the people they're reporting supposed bugs and vulnerabilities to if they haven't at least verified they're actual and not hallucinated.
Here I diverge from your thinking. Deskilling has been an ever-present danger since promotion to management was invented. Some managers retain their skills, others follow the Peter Principle ever upward until they're beyond their actual abilities. The need for skills remains, and I doubt computer coding knowledge will be vanishing just because it's gotten easier to do it faster and better than ever before. If anything, I'm learning from the LLMs what's possible when you have so much extra time on your hands to write unit tests, document trace matricies, keep all the design documents in-sync with the actual state of the code, etc. All the things that we have been learning how to do minimally to avoid wasting time on them, now can be done maximally, and there are benefits - particularly when working with dim-witted LLM agents as front-line coders (who work really really fast.)
many things over the years. Speaking of a role better suited to an LLM....
You could as easily apply that statement to automobiles, earth movers, concrete plants...
Regarding languages: they never mattered a whole lot - by the time I was out of school I had BASIC, Assembly (several kinds), Fortran, Pascal, C, C++, LISP, probably several more - and it's all more or less the same, each with their own quirks and special supports. Mostly you just use what works in the environment you're trying to develop for. Same for libraries and APIs... More recently, I did a fairly sizeable project in Python with Claude, but much more important than anything written in Python were the user-facing requirements. When I was tired of Python taking 2-3 seconds to render a page, I consulted with Claude and we settled on Go as the next logical target. Because the requirements and their tests were fully developed / properly exercised and maintained, the re-code from Python to Go was 100% automated, all done by Claude, and it came out flawlessly - every feature identically implemented, running from the same database, only pages rendered in 0.1 seconds max instead of 2-3. Claude assures me that the Python development went 2-3x faster than original development would have gone in Go... I wonder how true that was, or if Claude is just parroting what it read somewhere; actually, at this stage I'm 95% sure it was parroting, though the models are getting better about quoting actual estimates based on LLM assisted development.
Actually, they are. They are a teeming horde of individual profit driven entities who might not be able to afford an education otherwise. One might even extend that analogy to Anthropic and friends, where it was more realistic for them to ask forgiveness / restitution rather than permission. Illegal, yes. But would staying legal have been the right move?
No matter what happens in November, I still wonder about the future of the US, and the world.
MangoCats
Unknown parent • • • Public Messageplaying God, master and commander of their own little universe - having the final say in every single aspect of the company. The good ones delegate. Not all CEOs are good.
No, but they can weigh alternatives and make psychopathically insensitive decisions to maximize profits - which is the implicit job description of CEO.
In the 1990s compilers de-skilled my assembly programming. I'm O.K. with that, I'm sure I could pick it back up if it were necessary, better than I did before for my diverse experience outside assembly programming since then, but it doesn't seem likely I'll ever need to.
Google and the other search engines deskilled my library navigation abilities. I used to know how to whiz from card catalog to
... Mostrar másplaying God, master and commander of their own little universe - having the final say in every single aspect of the company. The good ones delegate. Not all CEOs are good.
No, but they can weigh alternatives and make psychopathically insensitive decisions to maximize profits - which is the implicit job description of CEO.
In the 1990s compilers de-skilled my assembly programming. I'm O.K. with that, I'm sure I could pick it back up if it were necessary, better than I did before for my diverse experience outside assembly programming since then, but it doesn't seem likely I'll ever need to.
Google and the other search engines deskilled my library navigation abilities. I used to know how to whiz from card catalog to microfiche to the stacks to requesting an inter-library loan in a half dozen local libraries. If I ever need to go back to doing those things, first I'll have to learn how they've changed in the last 25 years, but meanwhile - search engines are 1000x faster and more efficient. I can't remember the last time I drove 30 miles, parked downtown and walked in the rain to use a search engine, but I do remember doing that and more to use libraries.
I think it's time to crack that deskilled buggy whip maker joke now...
Self touted experts full of misinformation are nothing new. People have been selling stale and hallucinated "business intelligence" since forever.
Like the cotton gin, the spinning Jenny, the power loom, etc. People could and still can pick seeds, spin thread, weave by hand - but why would they pursue that as a career anymore?
If you really want to change the state of things, there are more effective uses of your time to achieve that end than moaning about it on the internet. You might ask ChatGPT how you can achieve your goals more effectively. I wouldn't take the responses as marching orders, but you might be surprised if you actually think about the effort vs efficacy ratio of your options.
Do you remember Kent State? I'll note that the draft has ended and not returned since.
MangoCats
Unknown parent • • • Public MessageWell, you and your "human solutions" have been banging that drum for 50 years (that I know of) and all I see is negative progress. The ChatGPT suggestion was meant as a barb, of course, but in a "try something different" kind of way, because 50 more years of the same old same old bitching about the evil corporations might get you one more AT&T breakup level event, if you're lucky and the powerful people of the world want it broken up too...
On the internet, nobody knows you are a dog.