A bit too popular, as all the culture clash & other associated problems are giving right-wing extremists ammunition for their bullshit. At least so it seems to this distant American who lived there for several years decades ago.
Edit: sorry for my uninformed guess. I honestly have only very loosely paid attention to what's going on over there as there's more than enough BS at home drawing my attention. I just hate to hear of my favorite childhood place having similar problems.
Esta entrada fue editada (sábado, 26 de septiembre de 2026, 20:30)
IME, people from slavic countries aren't really responsible for most of the culture clashes. Far-righters are mostly complaining about muslims and black africans, i.e. groups that are much more visible and far more culturally different.
Also, I'm not a fan of appeasement. IMO few would care about the far right if people didn't have to deal with more tangible issues like absurd real estate prices, declining quality of social security systems + healthcare and the national government's brazen corruption. Plus, massive online propaganda.
Esta entrada fue editada (sábado, 26 de septiembre de 2026, 20:09)
Good point. I'm only loosely aware of what's going on over there, and honestly haven't really put much thought into it. I just hate to see yet another piece of cherished childhood memories going down the tubes.
Oh, they hate Slavs too, they just hate muslims more. If they were to somehow get rid of the migrants they'd find the time for slav-bashing, believe me.
That argument means that nothing you do will make the farrighters disappear, other than legal and possibly violent suppression. I do think there's some truth to that, but the fact that the farrighters aren't even complaining (much) about slavs immediately invalidates the other commenter's argument.
Esta entrada fue editada (domingo, 27 de septiembre de 2026, 10:14)
Oddly enough, so is Kazakhstan! By most definitions of the Asia-Europe border, Kazakhstan has a chunk on the European side that's actually still bigger than most European countries
Most of it is in Asia, but the part in Europe has most (75%+) of the actual people. Partly colonial population dynamics at work, partly the rest of it being Siberia.
The European part of Turkiye is still about twelve million people as well, it's not like Russia but it is still a pretty substantial number of people. It'd be the 12th-most populous country in Europe if it was independent
It's not as out of balance as Russia though. European Russia accounts for about 15% of Europe's entire population. It's a huge area, a lot of which is rural, but its population density of 27/km^2 is almost 10x as high as the population density of Siberia at 2.8/km^2. Siberia is 13.1 million km^2, European Russia is just under 4 million km^2.
Siberia is normally thought of as a snowy wasteland, but it also includes Russia's entire Pacific coast, including Vladivostok where in the summer the average highs through July, August and September are all above 20C. That's warmer than Edinburgh. Its winters are colder, but they're not much colder than Moscow.
i feel there's a big difference in how the parts of the countries culturally relate to each other, too. Like i'm not aware of any real difficulty getting between european and asian Turkey, whereas with russia it's 1) a massive distance, 2) there's a big fuckoff mountain chain in the way, and 3) the fuck are you going to do in siberia?
Most popular coloring is deceiving: It could mean 90% emigrate to that country or 10% do. Also this map totally neglects how many stay in that country.
To visualize the data completely (not on a map unfortunately) one could choose a chord diagram.
It's deceiving in multiple ways. Like of course more Romanians emigrate to Germany than to Belgium or Luxembourg, Germany is many times larger. They should add the to-country base population and/or surface to the equation.
Yup, i liv in sweden and im hungarian so i know my stuff with uralic languages. I think its mainly about estonia not being on the peninsula, but neither is denmark. The absolute most northern part of denmark is about as north as the mosy southern part of estonia and also estonia is seperate from latvia and lithuania as those are balto-slavic while estonia is uralic as mentioned previously which puts it with finnish and sami in northern europe. Estonia is also very modern and has a well oiled welfare system(at least from the outside, would gladly hear the opinion of an estonian) so all of these make estonia feel pretty nordic.
Afaik from Helsinki to Tallinn it's like thirty minutes on a ferry, so even tourists tend to visit the latter together with the former. (Which, I now realize, I failed to think of when sitting in Helsinki not knowing what else to do.)
Fuck Germany. I'm German. Honestly don't go there if you have better choices. Not because I don't want you here, you're more than welcome. Because you'll get milked. Germany is impoverishing your country with all sorts of tricks. Look back at the Euro crisis and what we did with Greece. Look at their massive export surplus which basically means we're exporting deindustrialiuation to you. Look at what we did with the former GDR. Fuck Germany and their capitalist class.
Eurovision 2026 proves to be an eventful one as Germany sends an unorthodox song and band to play live at this year's singing contest! Like, hype and subscri...
Fuck Germany. I’m German. Honestly don’t go there if you have better choices. Not because I don’t want you here, you’re more than welcome. Because you’ll get milked. Germany is impoverishing your country with all sorts of tricks. Look back at the Euro crisis and what we did with Greece. Look at their massive export surplus which basically means we’re exporting deindustrialiuation to you. Look at what we did with the former GDR. Fuck Germany and their capitalist class.
I agree. Merz is basically a total personification of this. All he has achieved in his time is to make the far-right popular again. I hate that guy!
Yeah, under Orbán Hungary became an assembly service for German carmakers, who then wielded (probably still do) way too much economic influence over the country.
True that. We didn't have an actual left-wing government since 1989, even the supposed "left-wing" were actually neoliberals pandering to international corporations.
last time I checked, the British Isles weren't a continent themselves, so we do belong to Europe 😅 (unless you're trying to imply that we somehow belong to the Americas)
I would guess it was very different before the war started, but I can't find a good source nor for this, neither for pre-2022 stats. Now there are at least some companies that moved to Kazakhstan because it was a relatively easy move
No no, it's honestly the most logical choice for people from Belarus. Similar culture, many already speak the language, Poland is rich in comparison to Belarus and everything is a beacon of freedom when compared to Europes last dictatorship.
I know plenty of young Finns that left to Poland in hopes of better life and they're living the dream there.. Yeah, wages are smaller, but so are living costs and all that too.
Hasn't Poland doing very well over the last few years? So well, that in fact, here in germany more Poles are going back to Poland than new Poles are coming to germany lol. All because in germany the rents are high, and even more importantly, your net pay sucks since you gotta pay a lot for social security, and those social security costs that get deducted from your pay keep rising, leaving you with an ever smaller net pay.
People moving to germany thinking wages are great, until they realize their net pay is like only half of their gross pay. Add to that insane rents, and then everything doesn't look so rosy anymore.
I live in Finland and we're looking to moving into Sweden or Norway.. It's rough here. Everything is expensive, can't get or afford healthcare, no jobs.. We just want a little house and some simple jobs to barely sustain or little family, and to be able to go to the doctor if sick. Not possible in Finland at the moment or in the near future.
Don't expect it to be terribly different in Norway. If you are dying and/or need emergency care it is probably ok/good, but just your average healthcare is annoying at best and you have to beg for any kind of specialist treatment.
It used to be nice, it's still nice if you're dying. The big problem is getting there as some data suggests Finland now has by far the longest wait times to see a doctor in Europe. Current government implemented austerity measures combined with economic difficulties since the 90s recession that screwed us over.
It might still be better compared to not getting any.. It's not like we need help every week and so on. I got lots of family in Northern Sweden, and they all just say it's all good and they get easily what they need and even can go to specialists fast. (Yes, on public side.)
not sure you want to use northern sweden as a good example, considering how there have been news articles about people having to drive for hours to give birth in a hospital because their local one closed..
I have not tried swiss food, but oof. Still, I have been to only two places which might be close to beating france in terms of average quality of food.
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The main difference is that they melt the cheese right off the wheel and they usually pair it with "grenaille" potatoes (basically a variety that's really small, so they are kind of roasted when cooked)
You can try it at home but you need specialized equipment to melt cheese wheel chunks, over here you can loan them from some cheese shops, it looks like this:
When eating it in a restaurant they will usually do that in the kitchen and just bring the partly melted chunk at the table and scrape the melted cheese into your platter though. To be honest I'm not sure that melting the cheese directly from the wheel changes the taste, as long as you've got good cheese, but it looks glorious, and looks are actually a big part of the culinary experience so I think it still plays a part.
Also there's kind of a dispute over whether that process actually comes from Switzerland or not IIRC, but it is more widespread there nowadays
They actually sell Raclette appliances in German-speaking countries. They’re little square frying pans with a little grill you put them under. Raclette is sold pre-sliced for them. It’s not as fun as a big block of molten cheese but it’s a nice communal meal like a hotpot.
I know you can get pretty much anything in the US (or in the EU, for that matter). I'm not sure what the bougie (which means candle) is supposed to do in this context, but we do have candle sales... for wins, as in you start the bets, and when the candle go out, the last bet is it, it's a yearly thing. Maybe US grocery stores work in a similar way? I never saw it, maybe I just wasn't around at the right time. The US is a fascinating place.
Ah sorry, 'bougie' (sometimes spelled 'boujee' and pronounced "boo-gee") is a common english slang term meaning "associated with the bourgeoisie". Or in my case, it's a slang term that means "I cannot remember how to spell bourgeoisie".
That's super interesting about the candles though - despite the prevalence of online betting right now, the US really doesn't have much of a casual betting culture so that sounds pretty fun from an outsider's perspective! If you don't mind, what country / what's the tradition called? I'd love to hear more!
Esta entrada fue editada (lunes, 28 de septiembre de 2026, 19:45)
Yeah that's the "normal" raclette appliances you can get anywhere in France, from roughly 20 to 100€ depending on the model/brand. It still tastes amazing, because, duh, it's melted cheese with potatoes and charcuterie, but as you said, not as fun (and getting big blocks of cheese basically forces you to buy the good quality stuff, whereas the industrially pre sliced ones are often of much lower quality)
Greece and Albania are 100% accurate! Also Albanians, their second choice is Germany too. edit: why no one wants to go to Italy? like the go for vocations etc, but they don;t want to live there? weird.
Esta entrada fue editada (domingo, 27 de septiembre de 2026, 9:52)
Italy might be nice to live in if you're financially independent and don't need to work, but aren't they kind of famous for having a terrible economy for the last 50 years or so? I've also read it has an increasing number of people living with their families into their 30s, not by choice, but because they can't afford to live on their own with the current jobs available to them. With factors like that, plus their increasingly xenophobic government, it doesn't surprise me that people who have other options will prioritize them, rather than moving to Italy.
No see, that's why the map is confusing. The flag shows for each country where most people from that country emigrate to. So people from the Netherlands emigrate to Spain, people from Spain emigrate to Germany and people from Germany emigrate to Switzerland.
Estonia tax rate is 22% on personal income -- so for both income and capital gains. Also the dividend/corporate tax is quite company-friendly, companies pay corporate taxes only for money taken out as profit. I'm sure there are some details here that I don't know about rising the tax rate slightly from what I say here, but not by a lot afaik.
Quite the heaven for economic right-wingers. On paper at least. I'm guessing the practical reality (including a bit higher risk from Russia, I guess) isn't enough for that many Finns to move there, whatever their politics.
Esta entrada fue editada (lunes, 28 de septiembre de 2026, 17:26)
Estonia is kinda shitty imo (im estomian🇪🇪). We dont have any big political activity except Tartu. Most people are still with this soviet mindset that you can't have impact on anything. Which lead to status quo coming to power , thus increasing poverty, and now conservatives get more popular, because they promise infinite QoL and money glitch, which will lead to even worse conditions of the country i assume. Estomian electorate can not think about any left idealogies apparently.
BTW: eventually i decided to revive the Pirate Party of Estonia. So if there is some true patriotic estomians, visit piraadid.ee/
rumschlumpel
in reply to ooli3 • • •WhoIzDisIz
in reply to rumschlumpel • • •A bit too popular, as all the culture clash & other associated problems are giving right-wing extremists ammunition for their bullshit. At least so it seems to this distant American who lived there for several years decades ago.
Edit: sorry for my uninformed guess. I honestly have only very loosely paid attention to what's going on over there as there's more than enough BS at home drawing my attention. I just hate to hear of my favorite childhood place having similar problems.
rumschlumpel
in reply to WhoIzDisIz • • •IME, people from slavic countries aren't really responsible for most of the culture clashes. Far-righters are mostly complaining about muslims and black africans, i.e. groups that are much more visible and far more culturally different.
Also, I'm not a fan of appeasement. IMO few would care about the far right if people didn't have to deal with more tangible issues like absurd real estate prices, declining quality of social security systems + healthcare and the national government's brazen corruption. Plus, massive online propaganda.
WhoIzDisIz
in reply to rumschlumpel • • •Aqarius
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in reply to Aqarius • • •Danquebec
in reply to Aqarius • • •5715
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in reply to Carlos Solís • • •like this
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merc
in reply to Carlos Solís • • •Some countries like Turkey are part of both Europe and Asia on technicalities. They straddle the border so they get to be part of both.
Then there's Russia, where the population is mostly in Europe, but the land is mostly in Asia.
Skua
in reply to merc • • •merc
in reply to Skua • • •It's not as out of balance as Russia though. European Russia accounts for about 15% of Europe's entire population. It's a huge area, a lot of which is rural, but its population density of 27/km^2 is almost 10x as high as the population density of Siberia at 2.8/km^2. Siberia is 13.1 million km^2, European Russia is just under 4 million km^2.
Siberia is normally thought of as a snowy wasteland, but it also includes Russia's entire Pacific coast, including Vladivostok where in the summer the average highs through July, August and September are all above 20C. That's warmer than Edinburgh. Its winters are colder, but they're not much colder than Moscow.
European Russia - Wikipedia
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Swedneck
in reply to merc • • •Like i'm not aware of any real difficulty getting between european and asian Turkey, whereas with russia it's 1) a massive distance, 2) there's a big fuckoff mountain chain in the way, and 3) the fuck are you going to do in siberia?
merc
in reply to Swedneck • • •ol_capt_joe
in reply to antonim • • •JustEnoughDucks
in reply to Carlos Solís • • •like this
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in reply to Carlos Solís • • •Map Enthusiasts reshared this.
Logi
in reply to Carlos Solís • • •julianwgs
in reply to Carlos Solís • • •Most popular coloring is deceiving: It could mean 90% emigrate to that country or 10% do. Also this map totally neglects how many stay in that country.
To visualize the data completely (not on a map unfortunately) one could choose a chord diagram.
freebee
in reply to julianwgs • • •berber
in reply to Carlos Solís • • •sorry to be nitpicky, but it's only a 2-cycle, switzerland and france. but most of the countries get there via germany.
it would be interesting to look at the induced directed acyclic graph of the original graph's connected components.
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in reply to ooli3 • • •like this
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in reply to virku • • •like this
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ruuster13
in reply to rustydrd • • •AItoothbrush
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in reply to SlurpingPus • • •SlurpingPus
in reply to AItoothbrush • • •merc
in reply to virku • • •I like looking at these kinds of maps and finding the stable spots.
Norway -> Denmark -> Sweden -> Norway is one.
There's also Switzerland -> France -> Switzerland.
The UK escapes being part of one of those cycles by choosing a country that's off the map as their escape.
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ShotDonkey
in reply to ooli3 • • •kingofras
in reply to ShotDonkey • • •Eurovision 2026 - Germany Performance
Dr Phoxotic (YouTube)pamparana
in reply to ShotDonkey • • •I agree. Merz is basically a total personification of this. All he has achieved in his time is to make the far-right popular again. I hate that guy!
WorldsDumbestMan
in reply to pamparana • • •Hitler would be crying right now...
...for more than one reason.
kazerniel
in reply to ShotDonkey • • •Yeah, under Orbán Hungary became an assembly service for German carmakers, who then wielded (probably still do) way too much economic influence over the country.
foenkyfjutschah
in reply to kazerniel • • •kazerniel
in reply to foenkyfjutschah • • •gasgiant
in reply to ooli3 • • •Ah all those young European English people emigrating to Australia.
We left. Please exclude us from this sort of European nonsense.
kopasz7
in reply to gasgiant • • •gasgiant
in reply to kopasz7 • • •kopasz7
in reply to gasgiant • • •Switzerland, Iceland, Turkey etc. are also included and they aren't EU members.
I feel like you are deliberately misunderstanding the EU and Europe.
floquant
in reply to gasgiant • • •sem
in reply to gasgiant • • •gasgiant
in reply to sem • • •I would have thought the fact that the Aussie one has white stars (as in this map) and the New Zealand one has red stars made it clear enough already.
Still seems to confuse you though.
sem
in reply to gasgiant • • •I don't see them both named and together often enough to notice that they have different colors, but maybe I'll remember it after this interaction.
I still like the fern better though.
antianarchist
in reply to gasgiant • • •You left Europe, the subcontinent? How did you manage?
Or are you confusing it with the European Union, the political system?
gasgiant
in reply to antianarchist • • •Are you confusing the land mass of England as being part of the European continent with the residents of England as being European?
Suggest you reread the post title. This is about young Europeans. Which unfortunately young English people aren't anymore.
WIZARD POPE💫
in reply to gasgiant • • •How exactly?
antianarchist
in reply to gasgiant • • •By definition, even England is part of the subcontinent Europe. You can’t just leave Europe by voting.
Brexit, what you are probably referring to, affected the membership of the EU. That one you left, correct.
Enkrod
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rumba
in reply to Zacryon • • •A poll of 50 students
/s
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in reply to ooli3 • • •Sylvartas
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Sylvartas
in reply to wizzor • • •The main difference is that they melt the cheese right off the wheel and they usually pair it with "grenaille" potatoes (basically a variety that's really small, so they are kind of roasted when cooked)
You can try it at home but you need specialized equipment to melt cheese wheel chunks, over here you can loan them from some cheese shops, it looks like this:
When eating it in a restaurant they will usually do that in the kitchen and just bring the partly melted chunk at the table and scrape the melted cheese into your platter though.
To be honest I'm not sure that melting the cheese directly from the wheel changes the taste, as long as you've got good cheese, but it looks glorious, and looks are actually a big part of the culinary experience so I think it still plays a part.
Also there's kind of a dispute over whether that process actually comes from Switzerland or not IIRC, but it is more widespread there nowadays
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wizzor
in reply to Sylvartas • • •Ohh, I don't think I will buy the wheel holder thing, or a wheel of cheese for that matter, but I think I'll try making that myself the simple way.
Thanks for taking the time to type that out, it was intriguing.
nightlily
in reply to wizzor • • •AnUnusualRelic
in reply to nightlily • • •Warl0k3
in reply to AnUnusualRelic • • •AnUnusualRelic
in reply to Warl0k3 • • •Warl0k3
in reply to AnUnusualRelic • • •Ah sorry, 'bougie' (sometimes spelled 'boujee' and pronounced "boo-gee") is a common english slang term meaning "associated with the bourgeoisie". Or in my case, it's a slang term that means "I cannot remember how to spell bourgeoisie".
That's super interesting about the candles though - despite the prevalence of online betting right now, the US really doesn't have much of a casual betting culture so that sounds pretty fun from an outsider's perspective! If you don't mind, what country / what's the tradition called? I'd love to hear more!
Sylvartas
in reply to nightlily • • •∃∀λ
in reply to bthest • • •WorldsDumbestMan
in reply to bthest • • •rose56
in reply to ooli3 • • •edit: why no one wants to go to Italy? like the go for vocations etc, but they don;t want to live there? weird.
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in reply to Techlos • • •Regrettable_incident
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in reply to Techlos • • •rabber
in reply to ooli3 • • •Why would you leave Norway for shitty little Denmark tho
No really could downvoters explain? I lived in Aarhus briefly and it's just...fine. Lol
Clutter
in reply to ooli3 • • •As you can see. The Dutch stay in "dutch-land"
Because Holland is the best. Nobody wants to leave!
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in reply to Clutter • • •Clutter
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in reply to Hoimo • • •Aaaaah..... So actually... No one wants to be in The Netherlands?
Now I'm sad. Educated... But sad...
GarboDog
in reply to ooli3 • • •Germans want to be anywhere but Germany lol
Edit: we’re illiterate- everyone wants to be Germans lol
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in reply to cro_magnon_gilf • • •Oops.
I guess it was too absurd to be true.
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Schilling2304
in reply to abc • • •Curious.
The flat tax is on income ? Is there really a land value tax ?
Thanks.
abc
in reply to Schilling2304 • • •Estonia tax rate is 22% on personal income -- so for both income and capital gains. Also the dividend/corporate tax is quite company-friendly, companies pay corporate taxes only for money taken out as profit. I'm sure there are some details here that I don't know about rising the tax rate slightly from what I say here, but not by a lot afaik.
Quite the heaven for economic right-wingers. On paper at least. I'm guessing the practical reality (including a bit higher risk from Russia, I guess) isn't enough for that many Finns to move there, whatever their politics.
Martti
in reply to abc • • •abc
in reply to Martti • • •Martti
in reply to abc • • •Schilling2304
in reply to abc • • •When i learned about Estonian taxation, 20% was the percentage. I guess taxes have increased.
abc
in reply to Schilling2304 • • •Martti
in reply to Schilling2304 • • •Estonia is kinda shitty imo (im estomian🇪🇪). We dont have any big political activity except Tartu. Most people are still with this soviet mindset that you can't have impact on anything. Which lead to status quo coming to power , thus increasing poverty, and now conservatives get more popular, because they promise infinite QoL and money glitch, which will lead to even worse conditions of the country i assume.
Estomian electorate can not think about any left idealogies apparently.
BTW: eventually i decided to revive the Pirate Party of Estonia. So if there is some true patriotic estomians, visit piraadid.ee/
PIRAADID | PIRAADID
PIRAADIDSchilling2304
in reply to Martti • • •How many members do you have ?
Martti
in reply to Schilling2304 • • •homik
in reply to Martti • • •WetHedgeHog
in reply to ooli3 • • •WorldsDumbestMan
in reply to ooli3 • • •petersr
in reply to WorldsDumbestMan • • •whotookkarl
in reply to WorldsDumbestMan • • •belated_frog_pants
in reply to WorldsDumbestMan • • •Matty Roses
in reply to ooli3 • • •Jade
in reply to ooli3 • • •like this
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captainlezbian
in reply to Jade • • •like this
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Jade
in reply to captainlezbian • • •Muscle_Meteor
in reply to ooli3 • • •Italy's isnt Germany?!
How many italians are in Spain!?
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Jankatarch
in reply to ooli3 • • •Least surprised - Turkey. I grew up there, oddly common to have a religious uncle living in Germany.
Most surprised - Russia. Kazakhstan??
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captainlezbian
in reply to ooli3 • • •like this
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Furbag
in reply to ooli3 • • •Tattorack
in reply to ooli3 • • •Just love how Scandinavia is just a circle. XD
Edit: or, I guess, a triangle.
herseycokguzelolacak
in reply to Tattorack • • •