Every time I try a new browser because the old browser was run by horrible people I find the new browser is also run by horrible people. I'm running out of browsers. I worry browser are big and complicated enough these days that they will always be run by horrible people. Feels like I need to find the browser run by the least horrible people.
Saupreiss #Präparat500 👅🥚🥚
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageLynx? w3m?
Probably we should just go back to gopher.
Age
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageOYAR
in reply to Age • • • Public Message@Age
What my country run by horrible people?
#Politics #FailedState
George B
in reply to Age • • • Public MessageCan you find an LLM that isn't run by horrible people?
Michael Eggers 🇺🇦🇪🇺
in reply to George B • • • Public MessageEs Reicht!
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageNebyoolae
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageJess👾
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageScene World Magazine
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageIt’s time to come back to Firefox. The Internet you loved is still here.
Firefox (YouTube)Kenner
in reply to Scene World Magazine • • • Public Messageddurst
in reply to Kenner • • • Public MessageLaura
in reply to ddurst • • • Public Message@ddurst @kennergf @sceneworld Both. Mozilla has been seriously mismanaged, and Firefox is being pumped full of AI crap instead of fixing things people actually want.
The current meta is using a cleaned fork of Firefox.
mjc0961
in reply to Laura • • • Public Message@landelare I'm greatly enjoying Waterfox
(please don't let this be where I get a bunch of replies letting me know the Waterfox people suck)
Laura
in reply to mjc0961 • • • Public MessageNoa
in reply to ddurst • • • Public Message@ddurst @kennergf @sceneworld their CEO makes millions, mostly coming from Google funding & that funding is dependent on them embedding AI. So that's what they're doing.
They're pretending that an easily removable toggle makes it ok that AI is being embedded into the source code (not easily removable) instead of it being an add-on.
varx/tech
in reply to Noa • • • Public Messageddurst
in reply to varx/tech • • • Public MessageKenner
in reply to ddurst • • • Public Message@ddurst @sceneworld using WaterFox now
@Waterfox
#Waterfox
Zoidberg For President
in reply to Scene World Magazine • • • Public MessagePete / Syllopsium
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public Messagelynx or elinks?
Oh, you want pictures and Javascript. Then no.
El Dado Inquieto
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageSassinake! ᑐ ∪ ∩ ⊂
in reply to El Dado Inquieto • • • Public Messageworks well enough for me. IronFox on Android
GodotSteam
in reply to El Dado Inquieto • • • Public MessageJimmothy Baggins
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageKevin Beaumont
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageNicklas Löf
in reply to Kevin Beaumont • • • Public MessageFabrizio
in reply to Nicklas Löf • • • Public MessageJoris Meys
in reply to Kevin Beaumont • • • Unlisted MessageSecond vote for Vivaldi. It's degoogled chr9mium, but they're good people.
@grumpygamer
GrijzeBeamerNL
in reply to Joris Meys • • • Unlisted MessageEm & future cats 🇺🇦🐈🏳️🌈
in reply to Joris Meys • • • Unlisted Messagebadambassador
in reply to Kevin Beaumont • • • Public MessageWildEnte
in reply to badambassador • • • Public MessageCurioso
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageYora
in reply to Curioso • • • Public MessageCurioso
in reply to Yora • • • Public Message@yora
Feature wise, I think it is the most complete I know; the only thing I am missing now is container tabs. It uses the same engine as Chrome, after all.
The company is a norwegian-icelandic, employee owned, depending on donations.
Yora
in reply to Curioso • • • Public Message@jcurioso It's missing the ability to have the tabs above the URL bar. Which is the only place where they have any right to be.
Damn techno-fascism for making me endure this travesty.
Curioso
in reply to Yora • • • Public MessageI never liked tabs over the URL bar, even less after I got used to vertical tabs, which are much more practical with modern widescreen monitors.
Yora
in reply to Curioso • • • Public MessageTherefore the url bar has to be within the tab.
Solitha
in reply to Yora • • • Unlisted Message@yora @jcurioso Maybe I'm not understanding the problem.
aphantastic
in reply to Solitha • • • Unlisted Message@solitha @yora @jcurioso
Yeah, I'm so confused by this thread. 😂
Besides, like Firefox, you can totally modify the UI with CSS. Haven't found a solid CSS community like there's for Firefox, but the Vivaldi forums do have enough info to get started.
Curioso
in reply to aphantastic • • • Unlisted Message@aphantastic @solitha @yora
Funny. I didn't verify it, since I have vertical tabs. Thank you for the correction.
Elon Muksis 🇺🇦 🇵🇸 🇪🇺
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageZenHeathen 🇨🇦 🎃
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageLikewise.
*browser
*email
*OS
*office suite
*etc
Luuk
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageChristian Tietze
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageTrond
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageBrian Tatosky
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageRichard Penner
in reply to Brian Tatosky • • • Public Message@virtualbri
> “Enshittification” is a term coined by the author and activist Cory Doctorow, which describes the deliberate process of degradation of digital products and services.
Thanks @pluralistic
forbrukerradet.no/news-in-english/digital-products-and-services-are-getting-worse-but-the-trend-can-…
Digital products and services are getting worse – but the trend can be reversed
Andreas Framnes (Forbrukerrådet)Brian Tatosky
in reply to Richard Penner • • • Public MessageBenedicte Emilie
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageI’ve been to some talks with people from Vivaldi and they seem to be very into taking the internet back from evil megacorps. Based in Norway. They did some cool stunts a while back trying to get people off the meta:
kode24.no/artikkel/nasjonal-dugnad-for-a-hjelpe-nordmenn-vekk-fra-big-tech/262762
Nasjonal dugnad for å «hjelpe» nordmenn vekk fra «Big Tech»
Silje Rognsvåg (kode24)Carlos Solís
in reply to Benedicte Emilie • • Public MessageBenedicte Emilie
in reply to Carlos Solís • • • Public MessageBenedicte Emilie
in reply to Benedicte Emilie • • • Public Message@csolisr yeah the hide some of their UI code apparently:
> Roughly 92% of the browser’s code is open source coming from Chromium, 3% is open source coming from us, which leaves only 5% for our UI closed-source code.
From: vivaldi.com/blog/technology/why-isnt-vivaldi-browser-open-source/
Why isn’t Vivaldi browser open-source? | Vivaldi Browser
Julien Picalausa (Vivaldi Browser)Benedicte Emilie
in reply to Benedicte Emilie • • • Public Message@csolisr I don’t know your threat model. But if absolute control is your goal you can just compile your own version of LibreWolf or something.
For my case I’d gladly let people I believe in obfuscate some of the code I use.
Carlos Solís
in reply to Benedicte Emilie • • Public MessageBryan
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageRobin Palotai
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageThe gallant knight
in reply to Robin Palotai • • • Public MessageRobin Palotai
in reply to The gallant knight • • • Public MessageThe gallant knight
in reply to Robin Palotai • • • Public MessageWeird little guys of FOSS
drewdevault.comjade
in reply to Robin Palotai • • • Public Message@robinp ladybird is definitely not an option - it is run by a horroble right-wing bigot
read the link someone else posted; ladybird is approximately the WORST option if OP is avoiding tech made by fascists
Robin Palotai
in reply to jade • • • Public MessageCarlos Solís
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • Public MessageSel
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageNic Ferguson
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageI’ve gone back to Netscape Navigator.
Andrew Scagnelli-Townley
in reply to Nic Ferguson • • • Public MessageDuke
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageRicardo Antifa Harvin
in reply to Duke • • • Public Message@DukeDuke
I've been using Vivaldi for a couple of years on iOS (my primary computer) with only one intermittent (and minor, to me) issue with loading some websites.
99% of the time it works smoothly, for me.
Curioso
in reply to Ricardo Antifa Harvin • • • Public MessageSame here. What OS are you using, Duke? In my Ubuntu and my Windows, it runs perfectly fine...
Duke
in reply to Curioso • • • Public MessageCurioso
in reply to Duke • • • Public MessageIf you use it as a secondary browser, maybe you are using differently, or in webs that are more demanding or non standard. Or maybe the default adblocker feature is making a number in some of them.
IanOB
in reply to Duke • • • Public MessageMelvin Gundlach
in reply to Ricardo Antifa Harvin • • • Public MessageO'Schell
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageErtain
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Unlisted MessageRon Gilbert (GrumpyGamer)
in reply to Ertain • • • Unlisted MessageErtain
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Unlisted MessageAh, the more you know. 🌠
Yes, it is promising.
Maia
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Unlisted MessageJanek helps indie games
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Unlisted MessageRon Gilbert (GrumpyGamer)
in reply to Janek helps indie games • • • Unlisted MessageJanek helps indie games
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Unlisted Message@Ertain others left it in this very thread: nrw.social/@burningTyger/117554476103930899
The gallant knight
2026-11-03 20:49:14
Zoidberg For President
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Unlisted Messagejade
in reply to Ertain • • • Unlisted Message@Ertain drewdevault.com/weird-guys/
Ladybird is made by this guy - if OP is trying to avoid horrible people, it is probably the WORST option
Andreas is a far-right bigot
Weird little guys of FOSS
drewdevault.comDonat
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageKevin Russell
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public Messagebrainwashed by lentils
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public Messagelynx and xlinks2 and others also rocks.
I Don’t Want to Interact With Stochastic Parrots
ploum.netjason
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageStephen Boylett
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageRoss
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageWhat Ever Happened to Baby Joan?
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageWhat Ever Happened to Baby Joan?
in reply to What Ever Happened to Baby Joan? • • • Public Messagevamoscreciendo
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageAlexander S. Kunz
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Unlisted MessageI don't see @Waterfox mentioned yet — it's a no-nonsense Firefox fork. I prefer it over anything based on Google's heavy involvement with Chromium.
(Vivaldi couldn't stop the end of proper ad blocking with Manifest v3 for example, whereas Waterfox still runs the full uBlock Origin with all of its benefits.)
Early Twix
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageLou.
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Unlisted MessagePaul Giulan
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageMaia
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Unlisted MessageDaniele Pantaleo 🦥
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Unlisted MessageSpiral8s
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageJust throwing in Pale Moon. It's based off of an old Firefox engine that they've updated and reworked. Check out their website for more info: palemoon.org/
They have some extensions, but I don't believe Firefox ones are compatible. Cool concept but tbh I haven't really been using it much.
Pale Moon | Custom, Private, Open-Source Web Browsing.
www.palemoon.orgroot42
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageBenjamin S-B
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageNicolas
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public Message🎀𝓀𝒶𝓃𝑒𝑒𝓁🎀
in reply to Nicolas • • • Public MessageCurious Lily 🇪🇺 ✌🏼 👩🏽💻
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageQuiche Industries
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageRon, I make Quiche Browser on iOS, a silly-named but quite nice browser.
Also, I played Monkey Island on a VGA screen as a teen, and bought Thimbleweed Park multiple times on different platforms, which also makes me silly but nice.
TTDog666
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageNazo
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Unlisted MessageIf you've ever had to compile a browser you start to see that they've reached a point now that they're practically an OS in themselves. It takes my desktop computer around100x longer to compile browser adjacent things. (Both QT and GTK have something that is basically a slimmed down Chromium which, unfortunately, seems to get updated fairly often and somehow always needs to compile instead of using binaries for me — I should really look into where that use flag is coming from...)
I think LibreWolf, WaterFox, and IronFox are all pretty good, but they don't make the browsers, they just patch at the hot mess that Mozilla releases to try to clean it up after the fact.
I think Servo is our best hope. If they betray us I will put a curse on their families' families.
Janek helps indie games
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageTheConstructor (he/him)
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageGal (they/them)
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageDaniel Brodowski
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageHow about Ecosia🇩🇪?
....Or Mozilla🇺🇸/ Opera GX 🇨🇳/🇳🇴/🇵🇱 if You don't mind AI and US/PRC but I guess You do.
Mark Wyner Won’t Comply
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageI feel this. Big time.
I’m loving Lynx in my terminal. I customized its appearance to my liking.
For graphical browsers, I can’t be certain there are no dark secrets. But I think the following are in good shape with their leadership:
Vivaldi
Waterfox
Zen (but I really don’t like its UX/UI)
Vivaldi is my first choice. But they have some privacy gaps I’d love to see fixed. Specifically a lack of fingerprinting defense and Chromium patch lag.
Some folks talk about Ladybird. Please avoid it like the plague. Lots of folks aren’t aware of how bad their leadership is.
ekari
in reply to Mark Wyner Won’t Comply • • • Public Message@markwyner I'm having fun with chawan.net/ So much so, that it has replaced lynx for me.
It's in active development, and not by an asshole the last I checked :)
Chawan: TUI web browser
chawan.netMark Wyner Won’t Comply
in reply to ekari • • • Public Message@ekari
Rad. I can’t wait to check that out. Thanks!
@grumpygamer
demofox
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageMartin Larsson
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public Messagedecapitae
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageRon Gilbert (GrumpyGamer)
in reply to decapitae • • • Public Messagedecapitae
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageRon Gilbert (GrumpyGamer)
in reply to decapitae • • • Public MessagePaul Hoffer
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public Messageginshockabilly
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageSnaketember King Naga Calyo
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public MessageHonestly, I've simply resigned to avoiding the browsers run by the most horrible people.
Brave is the chart-topper of browsers run by horrible people because of Brendan Eich. But they also court AI and cryptocurrency people.
I'm *still* a Firefox loyalist, but when I *have* to use a Chrome-based browser, Vivaldi is my current weapon of choice. The others either lean too openly into AI (Opera) or are maintained by untrustworthy megacorps (Edge, Chrome).
Austin Dern, Coati Ghostie
in reply to Ron Gilbert (GrumpyGamer) • • • Public Message