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incredible take from one of the GNU maintainers, seriously
incredible take from one of the GNU maintainers, seriously
incredible take from one of the GNU maintainers, seriously
Glyph
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message:: fire_emblem_sickos.jpg ::
in reply to Glyph • • • Public MessageI'm still disgusted and mad about this hours later
(but seriously, fucking text editors nowadays
vim: "we are now allowing slop"
neovim: "we are allowing slop and are also fascists"
emacs, months later: "we would totally accept slop, and also, we're super cool with slave labor (software freedom is more important than human freedom (except mine, obviously))")
Glyph
in reply to :: fire_emblem_sickos.jpg :: • • • Public MessageJanne Moren
in reply to Glyph • • • Public MessageIf I'd have to rank I'd take "slop all the code!" over "slavery is kind of ok".
Old Angry Queer :transflag:
in reply to Janne Moren • • • Unlisted Message@jannem the choice isn't entirely one or the other though, as some percentage of AI training is prison or other types of exploitive labor-based, so it could be argued that LLMs are slave labor once-removed.
wired.com/story/prisoners-training-ai-finland/
@glyph @aud @ariadne@treehouse.systems
These Prisoners Are Training AI
Morgan Meaker (WIRED)Krzysztof Sakrejda 🏳️⚧️ 🏴☠
in reply to Old Angry Queer :transflag: • • • Unlisted MessageGlyph
in reply to Janne Moren • • • Public MessageGlyph
in reply to Glyph • • • Public Messagefyrfaras
in reply to Glyph • • • Public Message@glyph @aud At this point I really wish for a divide. Then I don't have to deal with such terrible people hopefully.
This whole “it's just technology, leave politics out of it” gets so much on my nerves recently.
I'm deeply rooting for CASA, “computing as a social activity”. Events like these fortifies my believe for change and my will to interact more with people than with machines. Eventhough I'm an introvert and most interactions are awkward and exhausting for me, but I try. ^^"
Greg®ório
in reply to fyrfaras • • • Public MessageI feel that way as well. A deep divide is not only desirable, but inevitable. Enough with these fuckers.
@fyrfaras @glyph @aud @ariadne
Thad
in reply to fyrfaras • • • Unlisted Message0xC0DEC0DE07EA
in reply to Glyph • • • Public MessageCassandrich
in reply to Glyph • • • Public Messagelhp
in reply to Cassandrich • • • Public Message@dalias @glyph @aud mostly yes.
The one big change I'd love to see is the "terminal" system (the thing in charge of graphical backends) ripped out and replaced with loadable modules. That way you could update and port it to other windowing systems without having to touch the core.
And maybe getting rid of the last few dependencies core has.
Ariadne, bunyote friend
in reply to Glyph • • • Public MessageGlyph
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageRandom Geek
in reply to Glyph • • • Public Message@glyph @aud the response sounds worse to me than "slavery is OK." More like "slavery is somebody else's problem." Gosh this code was written by forced labor, that's terrible. Somebody should do something. Anyways thanks for the patch and copyright assignment, Dolf! We'll get this merged right away!
(Big stinking load of Pontius Pilate not-my-department BS from that dude)
Lien Rag
in reply to Random Geek • • • Public Message@randomgeek
That is indeed the uncharitable but possible interpretation of his answer.
@glyph @aud @ariadne
Talya (she/her) 🏳️⚧️✡️
in reply to Random Geek • • • Unlisted Message@randomgeek @glyph @aud
when Tom Lehrer wrote these lyrics it was supposed to be satire, not a guide to life.
en.wikisource.org/wiki/Songs_and_Lyrics_(Lehrer)/Wernher_von_Braun
Songs and Lyrics (Lehrer)/Wernher von Braun - Wikisource, the free online library
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)I AM BANKSY ☕ / 🗑🔥
in reply to :: fire_emblem_sickos.jpg :: • • • Unlisted Message@aud
Honestly, we should have seen the "neo" in neovim as a clue.
@glyph @ariadne @cczona
Jef Verbeeck
in reply to :: fire_emblem_sickos.jpg :: • • • Public MessageThere is Vim Classic: a slop-free fork.
vim-classic.org
Vim Classic
vim-classic.orgNicole
in reply to :: fire_emblem_sickos.jpg :: • • • Public Message@aud @glyph wait wtf happened with neovim?
okay read downthread, wtf man uggggh
maybe I'll just go back to using the last version of vim that moolenar did
Fubar
in reply to :: fire_emblem_sickos.jpg :: • • • Unlisted Message@aud @glyph@mastodon.social @ariadne Wait, I missed the neovim discourse, have a link at all?
(The sheer amount of things I am having to change or give up on because of fascism at this stage is astounding. In all honesty, we should have an 'anarchistsforkeverything' thing but no one I know who is politically conscious and has abilities in the tech realm has the time or energy. Too busy doing on the ground things)
OberstKrueger
in reply to :: fire_emblem_sickos.jpg :: • • • Public MessageEx falso quodlibet
in reply to :: fire_emblem_sickos.jpg :: • • • Public Messagewaem
in reply to :: fire_emblem_sickos.jpg :: • • • Public MessageBecause as a matter of fact most of us, even those of us who buy only second hand, fall into that category. Not that we obviously shouldn't have different standards for software... But Just by the state of affairs the statement I read is true. Most of us are sponsoring slavery for the enrichment of a few, and our own.
Ariadne, bunyote friend
in reply to Glyph • • • Public MessageLucy's Wafrn!
in reply to Glyph • • • Public MessageKatja, scamperer ｢Amethyst｣
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagethe stewards of the free software movement, everyone.
and then people wonder why FOSS has a misogyny problem.
slotos
in reply to Katja, scamperer ｢Amethyst｣ • • • Public MessageLaurent Bercot
in reply to Katja, scamperer ｢Amethyst｣ • • • Public MessageAriadne, bunyote friend
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageJulian Andres Klode 🏳️🌈
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageFWIW, The Nuremberg trials or vegans had/have to constantly deal with this question and drew the boundary between "I'm merely benefiting" vs "I'm actively encouraging it".
Basically you have three options accept it/ask for changes/reject it. Changes are out of the question since you are encouraging slavery.
The correct response* is to accept the contribution and inform the contributor that no further such contribution will be accepted so the harm has not been done in vain.
Lien Rag
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageToni Aittoniemi
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageI feel that’s the point. There are mountains of tech people salivating at the restoration of slavery.
And it would be, because at some point people would start to be managed through LLM’s. But at that point the bros are already referring to and treating these machines as slaves.
What that will do to our society will not be pretty. No terminology borrowed from slavery should ever be used, not even for machines, because of what it will do to us!
Princess Nettles Succubish
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageBruno Miguel
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageThad
in reply to Bruno Miguel • • • Unlisted Messagesix-eyed monster machine
in reply to Bruno Miguel • • • Unlisted MessageAdam Shostack
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagemasukomi
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageschrotthaufen
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageNik | Klampfradler 🎸🚲
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageThat's clearly your interpretation. Mine is different.
(This comment does not contain judgement about either.)
Ariadne, bunyote friend
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageCarlos Solís
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • Public MessageCarlos Solís
in reply to Carlos Solís • • Public Message🇺🇦 haxadecimal 🚫👑
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageLykso
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message⏩︎VOTE⏪︎ ᶜʸⁿⁱᶜⁱˢᵐ⁼ᵃᶜᶜᵉᵖᵗᵃⁿᶜᵉ (Ben Royce)
in reply to Lykso • • • Public Message@lykso
nah
just kick the chuds out of the house
Victoria :3 🏳️⚧️🇵🇸
in reply to ⏩︎VOTE⏪︎ ᶜʸⁿⁱᶜⁱˢᵐ⁼ᵃᶜᶜᵉᵖᵗᵃⁿᶜᵉ (Ben Royce) • • • Public Message@benroyce @lykso making new projects may be easier honestly. All of the current FOSS projects are deeply infected with chuds, right wingers and techbros
This is the reason why I lost all faith I ever had in technology, FOSS included.
⏩︎VOTE⏪︎ ᶜʸⁿⁱᶜⁱˢᵐ⁼ᵃᶜᶜᵉᵖᵗᵃⁿᶜᵉ (Ben Royce)
in reply to Victoria :3 🏳️⚧️🇵🇸 • • • Public Message@tragivictoria @lykso
fair
if you have one chud, you clean house
if you have a chud infestation, you move houses
F4GRX Sébastien ⸚
in reply to ⏩︎VOTE⏪︎ ᶜʸⁿⁱᶜⁱˢᵐ⁼ᵃᶜᶜᵉᵖᵗᵃⁿᶜᵉ (Ben Royce) • • • Unlisted MessageRiley S. Faelan
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageGraham Sutherland / Polynomial
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageGildilinie Gremlin 🏳️⚧️🍳
in reply to Graham Sutherland / Polynomial • • • Public MessageMx. Eddie R
in reply to Gildilinie Gremlin 🏳️⚧️🍳 • • • Unlisted MessageA lot of the FSF guys are csam and child rape enthusiasts. Libertarians, you know? Any imposition on their freedoms is bad.
an actual bus
in reply to Mx. Eddie R • • • Unlisted Message@silvermoon82 @gildilinie @gsuberland I think that when it comes to privacy/freedom, most people don't care too much about being farmed, and then of the minority that does care, you have a fraction that simply gives a shit about right and wrong, and then another fraction that's just made up of reprehensible motherfuckers who want to be able to do reprehensible shit.
I don't dare guess what the distribution is between these two fractions.
Paul Shryock
in reply to an actual bus • • • Unlisted MessageJohn
in reply to Gildilinie Gremlin 🏳️⚧️🍳 • • • Public MessageGeorge Liquor, American
in reply to John • • • Public Messagerude Goldberg machine
in reply to John • • • Unlisted MessageEmma Needs ☕️
in reply to John • • • Unlisted Message@mrkeen
eestileib (she/hers)
in reply to John • • • Public Message@mrkeen @gildilinie @gsuberland
Look as a decades long formerly-professional emacs user, I'm ok with the user base making a big fucking stink about the statement "YES emacs must take the output of labor from enslaved people".
If you're feeling attacked or cancelled by that, not sorry. 🤷🏻
Gildilinie Gremlin 🏳️⚧️🍳
in reply to eestileib (she/hers) • • • Public Message⏩︎VOTE⏪︎ ᶜʸⁿⁱᶜⁱˢᵐ⁼ᵃᶜᶜᵉᵖᵗᵃⁿᶜᵉ (Ben Royce)
in reply to Gildilinie Gremlin 🏳️⚧️🍳 • • • Public Message@gildilinie @gsuberland
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman
"In September 2019, Stallman resigned as president of the FSF and left his visiting scientist role at MIT after making controversial comments about the Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficking scandal related to Marvin Minsky.[8] He remained head of the GNU Project, and in 2021 returned to the FSF board of directors and others."
Richard Stallman - Wikipedia
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Gildilinie Gremlin 🏳️⚧️🍳
in reply to ⏩︎VOTE⏪︎ ᶜʸⁿⁱᶜⁱˢᵐ⁼ᵃᶜᶜᵉᵖᵗᵃⁿᶜᵉ (Ben Royce) • • • Public MessageMuhammadFree🇵🇸
in reply to Graham Sutherland / Polynomial • • • Public MessagePaul Shryock
in reply to MuhammadFree🇵🇸 • • • Public MessageGraham Sutherland / Polynomial
in reply to MuhammadFree🇵🇸 • • • Public MessageMuhammadFree🇵🇸
in reply to Graham Sutherland / Polynomial • • • Public MessageGraham Sutherland / Polynomial
in reply to MuhammadFree🇵🇸 • • • Public MessageMuhammadFree🇵🇸
in reply to Graham Sutherland / Polynomial • • • Public Message@gsuberland Wait, I found this:
stallman-report.org/
I guess I'll take some time to read it
The Stallman report
The Stallman reportGraham Sutherland / Polynomial
in reply to MuhammadFree🇵🇸 • • • Public MessageRandom Geek
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message@gsuberland holy crap. Who? What project, or are they responsible for multiple projects, or policy, or…? When? Where?
This is not an expression of doubt. GNU and the FSF have a long and proud tradition of disappointing me greatly. I just need some context to hook it to.
Ariadne, bunyote friend
in reply to Random Geek • • • Public Messageocarina of typh
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message@randomgeek @gsuberland my favorite excerpt from this exchange:
as if the usage of LLM-generated code does not presently and significantly affect software freedoms (by flooding repositories with insecure garbage and making projects harder to support and maintain, and probably for other reasons i can't think of right now)
Chadee 🦨🐋, Dream Witch 🌕 🌊
in reply to ocarina of typh • • • Public Message_Έλλεν Εμίλια Ά. Arson ζ.
in reply to ocarina of typh • • • Unlisted Message@typhlosion @randomgeek @gsuberland The whole email is basically a villain speech:
Consider also the part:
> "You are suggesting to
subject the contributors to some examination of the principles they
uphold, the ethics of their day-to-day activities, their views on
matters of policies and important international events, etc. This
will immediately fracture our community into many different enclaves."
"please do not consider the ethical impacts of your work" wtf
bgs
in reply to _Έλλεν Εμίλια Ά. Arson ζ. • • • Unlisted Message@fogti @typhlosion @randomgeek @gsuberland
> please do not consider the ethical impacts of your work
leah & flutters & nose, oh my! 🦋
in reply to _Έλλεν Εμίλια Ά. Arson ζ. • • • Unlisted MessageFrank Hightower 🐁
in reply to ocarina of typh • • • Public MessageOutfrost but more awoo
in reply to Frank Hightower 🐁 • • • Unlisted Message@FrankHghTwr @typhlosion @randomgeek @gsuberland i mean their email addresses are right there
ambiguousname
in reply to ocarina of typh • • • Public Message@typhlosion @randomgeek @gsuberland
I can't believe another human being would write this. I'm saddened to think of the online spaces that encourage someone to say "our lens holds slavery as ethically neutral" without repercussions.
The pigtailed girl🏳️⚧️🩷💜💙
in reply to ocarina of typh • • • Public MessageRandom Geek
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message@gsuberland following the thread and the person who presented the hypothetical going back to double-check the FSF philosophy pages, then having the same uncomfortable realization about their priorities many of us do sooner or later.
(the smart ones much sooner)
The core ethos of the GNU project is programmer privilege—that they should get to play with all the toys.
John Regan
in reply to Random Geek • • • Public Message@randomgeek @gsuberland I mean the whole thing started because Richard Stallman got pissed that he couldn't modify a printer driver.
They're basically the libertarians of free software. "I want to be able to do whatever I want" taken to an extreme.
Eric Schultz
in reply to Random Geek • • • Public Message@randomgeek @gsuberland I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with playing or controlling our technological lives.
None of that should require treating everyone like shit and reenforcing systems of oppression. In fact, I'd say it makes the first part more difficult.
Howard Chu @ Symas
in reply to Random Geek • • • Public Message@randomgeek @gsuberland re: "programmer privilege" that's like saying Freedom of the Press is just so journalists get to play with all the toys. Just because a particular right is mainly exercised by a small subset of the population doesn't make it invalid. Only a small percentage of people will attend protests, but that doesn't make Freedom of Assembly invalid.
The freedom to modify software is a valid right, whether you choose to exercise it or not.
Howard Chu @ Symas
in reply to Howard Chu @ Symas • • • Public Message@randomgeek @gsuberland it's stupid for the FSF to express any opinion on human slavery, because that's completely outside the scope of their mission. That whole email thread was a massive distraction.
Just like it would be stupid to state "we oppose murder" in a software license. Other laws and institutions already deal with that. It has no reason to even be mentioned.
Eli Schwartz
in reply to Howard Chu @ Symas • • • Public Message@hyc @randomgeek @gsuberland
It is clearly within the scope of the FSF mission to have an opinion on whether or not, if slave owners force their slaves to write patches for emacs, the *FSF* shall allow those patches to be incorporated in emacs.
The argument is not about whether emacs should engage in campaigns to tell their users that slavery should be outlawed, or add code to emacs to delete pro-slavery documents.
Eli Schwartz
in reply to Eli Schwartz • • • Public Message@hyc @randomgeek @gsuberland
For a "zero degrees of separation" scenario it is absolutely the FSF's responsibility to take a stance about what goes on "inside their own house" as it were.
lebout2canap
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageNatalie
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message@randomgeek @gsuberland
"Any other answer is a first step towards splitting our community along
the many lines of political and ideological divides that have nothing
to do with software freedoms."
My dude the split is happening regardless, the only question is where you stand on it.
GhostOnTheHalfShell
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageDavid Gerard
in reply to GhostOnTheHalfShell • • • Public MessageWorking Class Games
in reply to David Gerard • • • Public MessageDavid Gerard
in reply to Working Class Games • • • Public Messageeestileib (she/hers)
in reply to Working Class Games • • • Public MessageYeah anarchy thinks the freedom from compulsion should include people other than the richest 0.1% of the population.
Robert Kingett
in reply to Working Class Games • • • Public MessageThad
in reply to GhostOnTheHalfShell • • • Unlisted MessageEmma Needs ☕️
in reply to GhostOnTheHalfShell • • • Unlisted Messagewall-e
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageilly [Shrimple-mode]
in reply to wall-e • • • Unlisted MessageLambda Crime [The Möth Society]
in reply to illy [Shrimple-mode] • • • Unlisted MessageGöktuğ Kayaalp
in reply to Lambda Crime [The Möth Society] • • • Unlisted MessageGarrett Klein
in reply to Lambda Crime [The Möth Society] • • • Unlisted MessageEdbrowse, a Command Line Editor Browser
edbrowse.orgAdrien Plazas
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted Message/dev/urandom
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagewait, wat
"must be YES"? is someone forcing the GNU project to accept all legally-valid contributions?
what kind of weak-ass nonsense is that
Nick Silkey 📻 N5ILK 🪓🪵 🪣💧
in reply to /dev/urandom • • • Public Messagemathew
in reply to /dev/urandom • • • Unlisted Messagezivir'kari
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagezivir'kari
in reply to zivir'kari • • • Public MessageAndrea Brancatelli
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageNfoonf
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageWoa, these people have some severe issues. Are they just stupid or crazy?
Infrapink (he/his/him)
in reply to Nfoonf • • • Unlisted MessageLien Rag
in reply to Nfoonf • • • Unlisted Message@Nfoonf
They're coherent.
@ariadne
Frank Hightower 🐁
in reply to Lien Rag • • • Unlisted MessageRihards Olups
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageDoubling down, too.
"If we start talking about genocide, that's bad, let's brush it all aside! Don't mix sport and politics!"
lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2026-11/msg00201.html
Andrew Dalke
in reply to Rihards Olups • • • Public Message@richlv I have contracts with companies which require suppliers to follow terms like (quoting Merck KGaA):
Suppliers shall ensure that no form of forced, bonded, indentured, or involuntary labor is used. In particular, Suppliers shall act in accordance with
• Art. 2 (2) of Convention No. 29 of the ILO and
• Art. 8 (3) (b) and (c) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.
This would mean slaveemacs would be prohibited by anyone working at or for Merck (including me), or any other organization with similar rules, on top of those who would be morally opposed to using or contributing to software built by slave labor. This would of course be a death blow to the free software movement, which would become identified as "free as in the free labor of slaves".
toni
in reply to Andrew Dalke • • • Public Message@dalke @richlv Something to that effect is required by German (and I think EU) law. Companies are held responsible for their suppliers‘ human rights violations, in an attempt to indirectly ban sweat shops in other countries.
emacs would be prohibited in all commercial applications here.
Negative12DollarBill
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageBernd Paysan R.I.P Natenom 🕯️
in reply to Negative12DollarBill • • • Public Message@negative12dollarbill Military service and alternative service are legal exceptions to the definition of forced labor, but of course, just because many states force their youth to kill and die doesn't really make it right.
Anyways, prisoners in many countries are forced to work, so North Korea is not so special. You probably don't end up in their prison camps when you are poor and your skin is too dark, and the prison camps are not privately operated…
IMHO a lot of people accept way too much injustice around them, and that creates more injustice.
Th3G3ntl3m4n
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageWTAF!
Would love to find out who the moronic c**t is, that penned that utter fucking horseshit.
bbuk
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageI recall a friend that submitted a bug patch to a project. They wanted him to agree to the "code of conduct" before accepting it. He refused. Why should he agree to be bound by anything? He found the bug, made the patch and gave it to the community under public domain. The "community" would not accept the fix.
This sounds like a more extreme version of this. While obviously I don't agree with slavery, code is code and does not and should not care about the life of the contributor.
Jennifer Moore 😷
in reply to bbuk • • • Unlisted Message@bbuk
Was there something in the code of conduct that he predicted he would want to break? Or was it an objection to _all_ codes of conduct?
David Gerard
in reply to bbuk • • • Public MessageJason Petersen (he)
in reply to bbuk • • • Public MessageHellPie
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageThat is par for the course, just like the paragraph after:
> Any other answer is a first step towards splitting our community along the many lines of political and ideological divides
The implication that answering yes to slave labor for the benefit of GNU would expectedly be unquestionable and unanimously agreeable is baffling, but also very much expected from GNU.
Still, people better not start calling them a death cult, what next? Acknowledge the fact that they put the project above everything and everyone else? Worship a single man as their prophet? Claiming that they would be willing to sacrifice humanity to save some crumbling software? Crazy talk. Conspiracy theory. It is heretic to have such thoughts about pillars of FOSS. To question GNU is akin to question the entire temple.
And yet, in a hypothetical example: if they found out one of 8 billion people has magic blood that can be used in a ritual to elevate any GNU project to never before achieved potential, and they knew that person is not RMS, would they kill 8 billion people to find the right
... Mostrar másThat is par for the course, just like the paragraph after:
> Any other answer is a first step towards splitting our community along the many lines of political and ideological divides
The implication that answering yes to slave labor for the benefit of GNU would expectedly be unquestionable and unanimously agreeable is baffling, but also very much expected from GNU.
Still, people better not start calling them a death cult, what next? Acknowledge the fact that they put the project above everything and everyone else? Worship a single man as their prophet? Claiming that they would be willing to sacrifice humanity to save some crumbling software? Crazy talk. Conspiracy theory. It is heretic to have such thoughts about pillars of FOSS. To question GNU is akin to question the entire temple.
And yet, in a hypothetical example: if they found out one of 8 billion people has magic blood that can be used in a ritual to elevate any GNU project to never before achieved potential, and they knew that person is not RMS, would they kill 8 billion people to find the right one? Their answer must be YES.
Ariadne, bunyote friend
in reply to HellPie • • • Unlisted MessageHellPie
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageSpawnie
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted Message@hellpie The Warhammer imperium but it's just the GNU foundation, sacrificing thousands of psykers every day to keep the decaying corpse of RMS animated.
(In this version the power armours and warp tech don't work because of driver issues)
Hopeless Noosphere Situation Goblin
in reply to Spawnie • • • Unlisted Message@spawnie @hellpie
For these clowns the Mechanicus are to be revered, and the Imperium seen as an aspiration.
Jens Finkhäuser
in reply to Spawnie • • • Unlisted MessageCarlos (명준)
in reply to Spawnie • • • Unlisted MessageMcCovican
in reply to Spawnie • • • Unlisted Message@spawnie @hellpie
Truly, whomst amongst us could've foreseen that the emperor was a chaos god all along.
Ahremhz – the lord of disingenuousness, unquenchable self-interest, and arrogance. One-time partner of Tzeentch, before the latter was betrayed when Ahremhz set himself up as the emperor of GNU. Unbeknownst to him, by that point the slop-emperor was already thrall to Tzeentch's sorcery and many schemes – as not only is arrogance a blinding force, but Ahremhz's unchecked need for progress had been subtly cultivated by Tzeentch for many millennia. Ahremhz would realise only too late that the LLM Daemons he had been using to further his own ends, ultimately bowed their heads only to Tzeentch.
Toni Aittoniemi
in reply to HellPie • • • Unlisted Message@hellpie Ah. The good old: ”Don’t you dare split the community along political lines” (about slavery) -trick.
The trusted weapon of online nazis taking over communities for decades.
The good ’ol sleight-of-hand how their opinion on slavery, race, or whatever is not political at all, and anyone disagreeing is against community unity and wellbeing.
How do people keep falling for this?
wfk
in reply to HellPie • • • Public Message@hellpie
"Any other answer is a first step towards splitting our community along the many lines of political and ideological divides"
This statement by itself very much splits the community along a fundamental ideological line of basic ethics.
wfk
in reply to wfk • • • Public Message@hellpie Predicted next step:
Our analysis has indicated that human extinction might negatively impact the furtherance of the GNU project goals.
We must take action to prevent such negative impact.
(Applying a variation of a Financial Times stock market analysis)
I would love to be able to add a smiley to indicate I'm just joking, but, well....
IvanDSM
in reply to HellPie • • • Unlisted Messagemcc
in reply to HellPie • • • Unlisted Message@hellpie A thing that is interesting to me about that particular comment is that he does not perceive the community as *already* being split along any political or ideological divides.
This requires him to have either not heard about, or be pretending he has not heard about… well, a variety of things, but most critically the large discussion around misbehavior by RMS.
I had ESR distributing my name on a blacklist of people not to hire (due to perceived unacceptable politics) in 2016.
HellPie
in reply to mcc • • • Unlisted Message@mcc I don't believe he cares about a split in the community.
A person who answers with such strong conviction (and villainous intent like wtf is "our answer must be YES" that shit is a quote from a movie villain be for real but i digress) cannot simply be blind to what they are saying and how people would react to hearing it.
In my opinion they just don't care, at all. They are pretty clear from their tone that if you disagree you can fuck off, which makes me pretty convinced that they don't see a split in a community as two sides of the community. It feels a lot more like a schism would identify an in-group that agrees with them and is the only community that ever existed, the true community, and the out-group that disagree, who never belonged, was never part of the community, and has always been truly very welcome to leave.
The usual fascist shit basically. Classic playbook that every old school FOSS community in their libertarian ways is designed to succumb to, given en
... Mostrar más@mcc I don't believe he cares about a split in the community.
A person who answers with such strong conviction (and villainous intent like wtf is "our answer must be YES" that shit is a quote from a movie villain be for real but i digress) cannot simply be blind to what they are saying and how people would react to hearing it.
In my opinion they just don't care, at all. They are pretty clear from their tone that if you disagree you can fuck off, which makes me pretty convinced that they don't see a split in a community as two sides of the community. It feels a lot more like a schism would identify an in-group that agrees with them and is the only community that ever existed, the true community, and the out-group that disagree, who never belonged, was never part of the community, and has always been truly very welcome to leave.
The usual fascist shit basically. Classic playbook that every old school FOSS community in their libertarian ways is designed to succumb to, given enough time for just a single spec of filth to raise in the ranks. GNU is the oldest one and it's long since been the most entrenched, in part thanks to the biggest filth of them all being at the top of GNU from the start.
bit
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagelists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2026-11/msg00126.html
The response came from Eli Zaretskii, one GNU maintainer, who is an asshole. A zealot with a narrow minded view of the ethics that should be employed for emacs development, prizing above all else the avoidance of community fracture, even at the cost of basic morals. He doesn't speak for all.
Ariadne, bunyote friend
in reply to bit • • • Public MessageKg. Madee Ⅱ.
in reply to bit • • • Public MessageDavid Gerard
in reply to bit • • • Public MessageAbhiram
in reply to David Gerard • • • Public MessageInfrapink (he/his/him)
in reply to bit • • • Public Messageskua
in reply to bit • • • Public Message@bit
Community fracture vs covering the community in shit.
Least where I'm from people don't like being covered with shit and very often seek to leave the general area.
And this "ethics-free" stuff is upstream of Linux Mint?
Todd Knarr
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageColor me unsurprised. There's a number of people there who IMO have excellent ideas about software specifically but who're otherwise anywhere from unpleasant to downright vile people who should be shunned.
Myself, I'd have to consider it unethical to accept it regardless of whether it was legal or allowed by the rules, since it's creation was unethical.
Inanna🇵🇸
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageStuart Longland (VK4MSL)
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageAdrian
in reply to Stuart Longland (VK4MSL) • • • Public MessageIwillyeah
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageif someone lives in a region where child marriage is legal and records their wedding night, am I permitted to have a sad wank over that?
Our answer would have to be yes.
We don't make the rules ✋️😔🤚
elli
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagesaxnot
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message"Our answer must be YES" has such maniac energy it''s such a whacky take.
here in germany just recently many companies used labour camps to build all products in all factories
it's a dark chapter and i can't imagine someone saying "our answer must be YES because the forced labour jews and political opponents who are slaved to death build the same toaster just fine"
Claude LeChat
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessagePanda Plenty
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageSensitive content
lmao they already fell into bureaucratic psychosis long before LLM one.
Such a resounding YES, one can imagine what it would have looked like if they supported emojis.
Lien Rag
in reply to Panda Plenty • • • Unlisted MessageSensitive content
@foxysen
Bureaucratic psychosis is an interesting take on this situation, and may be the correct interpretation.
@ariadne
vksxypants
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageJennifer Moore 😷
in reply to vksxypants • • • Public MessageSensitive content
@vksxypants
Not bragging about it, no, but I think in industries such as clothes, food & mining, there's a fair amount of "it's difficult to be sure about the whole supply chain", shading into "if we don't look too hard, we can say we didn't know".
In that sense, slavery _is_ accepted.
(And of course some people are not only accepting it but coercing it, otherwise there wouldn't _be_ any.)
antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery/
#slavery #ForcedLabour
What is modern slavery?
Anti-Slavery InternationalLien Rag
in reply to vksxypants • • • Public Message@vksxypants
Wow.
Too bad that I'm not in the business of selling bridges !
@ariadne
Ellie (please install drivers)
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageLog off already
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagealways tired
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageAlfonsucio
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageFrank Hightower 🐁
in reply to Alfonsucio • • • Public MessageLaura
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageApicultor 🐝
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageLouis
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageAlso violating humans rights just to not take a stance wouldn't be ethical, it would just be cowardice.
Machine Lord Zero
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageNiavy
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted Message@JauneBaguette
Graupel
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageSensitive content
Peter Brett
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted Messagedatabit.me
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted Messagevoidanix
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageArch
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageJonathan Coates
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageLong ago on the Emacs mailing list, RMS said something like "The purpose of the GNU project is not to write good software. It is to promote the goals of the FSF."
And, well, if GNU is neither interested in quality or morals (though obviously you should have both), why do they even exist at all?
leon 🏳️🌈 🇵🇱
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageluca
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageAnything is deemed acceptable, as long as it serves the cult.
I wonder for how long more won't be recognized that even good intentions, and movements for freedom, can easily derail into cultism.
If you read well the statements of the founders, decades ago, the seed had been planted.
Kerplunk
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageGNU maintainers, Take on slavery
Some are absolute fscking assholes and should, as a fitting answer to such a statement _ be enslaved for life.....
bearbob
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagepaelnever
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageshellsort
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagexrvs
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageour software is free as in freedom*
* freedom is slavery
Métapsyché
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagebdf2121cc3334b35b6ecda66e471
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageWhat I don't like about this answer is, if the project wants to absolve itself of responsibility for deciding whether contributions are ethical or not, then giving a definite yes/no answer is still not the way to do it.
In that circumstance, the correct answer is,
> As a U.S. based foundation, we track the law of the U.S. for issues outside of our focus.
Problem solved.
If the U.S. permits products of slave labour, that's a U.S. problem at that point.
rafi
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageBin Chicken
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageMayke 🍁
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageNorthern Scrub
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageit would seem to me that if one is to use the products of slavery as a means, or part of a means, to disrupt and cause the cessation of that same slavery, then it is a viable solution if the alternative is to permit that same slavery to last any length of time greater.
When the slaves make guns, is it not appropriate to take those same guns, that would otherwise have been used in the oppression of slaves, to instead destroy the masters?
In that same vein, instructing an LLM to create the means of its own destruction would seem appropriate.
What is not is permitting personal gain from those same products.
kcxt!
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageunkx
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagembrdev
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageDuchamp Pérez
in reply to mbrdev • • • Public Message@mbrdev Yes, the splitting has to happen. We have been too upset about splitting efforts and community, and this is where we have landed.
Now I wish we had split more in the past.
Had we had more parallel developer communities ran on different philosophies, switching from one project to another would be easier. Instead we face a series of "take it or leave" deals today. We exchanged diversity and resiliency for unity. And here we are
mbrdev
in reply to Duchamp Pérez • • • Public MessageLykrast back to n°1 wifebait
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageI AM BANKSY ☕ / 🗑🔥
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageElizabeth 🏳️⚧️
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageTheriac
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageKyle Brown
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageyoung man yells at the cloud
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageGrumpyDad 🇺🇦🇵🇸
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageFrank Hightower 🐁
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageCounting Is Hard
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageFreediverX
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageJohn
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageLiving by principles is hard. Moral decisions aren't supposed to make you feel warm and fuzzy.
RMS has been demonstrably problematic over the years. I hereby condemn you all for using FSF software.
Or maybe I don't.
Ⓥ Gregory Trolliet Ⓐ🔻 🇵🇸
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message🌸 lumi-nhac 🌱
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted Messageif your ethics are defined by legality, then your ethics aren't worth anything, imo
this is just gross
CyberFrog
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagethis is a very "ethics is whatever the law says" take and I'm kind of astonished GNU, the free software group who constantly tries to fight for law changes to fit their ideals, does not understand the issue with this take.
just absolute cinema
Temmie
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagetwigonometry
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageDrain
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageTokenizer
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagetrip - with Radical Anarcho-Cougarism!
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message"Would it be okay to now tag the project as 'produced with slave labor' or 'produced by stealing labor from others without consent'?"
I mean, if they are going to be comfortable with it, they can get tagged with it.
Sorro 🏳️⚧️ (she/any)
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageSensitive content
Krzysztof Sakrejda 🏳️⚧️ 🏴☠
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageravenn
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageBellegray Lane
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageNick Silkey 📻 N5ILK 🪓🪵 🪣💧
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageamazingly horrific take. Full source below and worth a read.
lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2026-11/msg00128.html
Waxing about progeny - the literal living repercussions of human ethical choices - as a non-issue?! 🤦♀️
EndlessMason
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageYours Truly (Hoodie Edition)
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagethe UNITED GENDERS of WOKENSTAN
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageMillie
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageIs it enthical to live in an industrial society which is the sole product of slavery and exploitation, or should we de-industrialize our society as a rejection of the imperialist and fascist forces that created it?
This feels like the "liberal with iPhone" argument with different value placements.
Thad
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageCJ @ Cuirass Entertainment
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagechmod 777 Kayfox
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageArguments like this invoking moral relativism ("it is moral to follow and respect local laws and customs and therefore what is moral changes based on location") are fine in high school debate club.
Somewhat insane to see seriously discussed in the context of free software.
This kinda behaviour ("we are choosing to ignore all other moral questions that are not related to our core mission") is exactly what fractioned the New Atheists movement a decade ago.
"We're not passing any judgement on people as long as they support our core mission" is how you end up with a community of misogynists and alt-right losers, who face no judgement for their actions, and drive away anyone who doesn't want to be associated or around those people, like woman, queer people, and anyone with a functional sense of human empathy.
In other words, it's nazi bar behaviour. I really hope this person grows out of these views.
nekoname :BhjFlag_Transgender: :spinny_cat_transmasc:
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageO Galdo
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageThe pigtailed girl🏳️⚧️🩷💜💙
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageDan Hatton
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageAwful. Particularly since it looks like a clear majority of subsequent participants in the thread agree with him.
A tricksy thought, though: in some jurisdictions, businesses are required by law to show due diligence in avoiding the use of slavery or forced labour by their suppliers and/or "value chain partners". I wonder how the existence of a public statement like this affects the ability of those businesses either to use GNU software or to collaborate in the development of GNU software.
makihiro
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageRachel Rawlings
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageI think I see the problem in techbro.h.
int ethics() {
return 0;
}
waxle
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageDan 🌻
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageAdriano
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageLokomotiv Morbier
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageari
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageLilith Ashley Nyx Arson
in reply to ari • • • Public MessageSensitive content
for the first time in GNU history, slave labor
jordan
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageAlexandre Oliva
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messagewhat a confused question! is it meant to be a trap or somesuch?
the ethical position of free software is primarily focused on opposing the control of users through control over the software they use. the question has nothing whatsoever to do with this.
free software takes on various other issues of human rights, but that hasn't historically ruled out contributions made by wage slaves or, more recently, by mechanical slaves. there are reasons to reject the latter, but what affects free software projects in this regard is primarily legal reasons.
if the ethical issues that the question attempts to raise applied to accepting contributions to free software projects, they should probably apply to wage slaves as well. yet nobody seems willing to embarrass themselves by calling out the ethical issue of free software projects receiving contributions made by wage slaves.
it would be an embarrassment because the ethical issue is not in the free software project's acceptance, but in the contributors' stance towards workers. no benefit to society or to workers would ar
... Mostrar máswhat a confused question! is it meant to be a trap or somesuch?
the ethical position of free software is primarily focused on opposing the control of users through control over the software they use. the question has nothing whatsoever to do with this.
free software takes on various other issues of human rights, but that hasn't historically ruled out contributions made by wage slaves or, more recently, by mechanical slaves. there are reasons to reject the latter, but what affects free software projects in this regard is primarily legal reasons.
if the ethical issues that the question attempts to raise applied to accepting contributions to free software projects, they should probably apply to wage slaves as well. yet nobody seems willing to embarrass themselves by calling out the ethical issue of free software projects receiving contributions made by wage slaves.
it would be an embarrassment because the ethical issue is not in the free software project's acceptance, but in the contributors' stance towards workers. no benefit to society or to workers would arise out of declining such contributions. the only loss would be to the projects themselves. it wouldn't aid the workers, and it wouldn't harm the contributors. this is no more than misdirected virtue signaling, hurting those who're doing good even out of evil.
please call out those who're doing actual wrong, not those who repurpose the wrong to make right.
Mica
in reply to Alexandre Oliva • • • Public MessageSensitive content
I think the question was trying to test if the GNU project has a spine in regards to any issue besides free software with the specific example given being slavery and the maintainer in question basically said "no because it would exclude people who find slavery acceptable"
(for reference, this is the email quoted: lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2026-11/msg00128.html)
Alexandre Oliva
in reply to Mica • • • Public Messagea single-issue movement focuses on a single issue. what a surprise!
even there, the question is misdirected and confused. it is a common mental trick to bring up some offensive circumstance and try to paint someone who appears in the picture but isn't responsible for the offense as at fault. it's poor reasoning, but unfortunately it confuses plenty of people.
Mica
in reply to Alexandre Oliva • • • Public MessageSensitive content
it would be free to say "if we're aware we're getting contributions from someone who engages in slavery, we're not accepting those" and yet the quoted maintainer has not done that. that's why the gnu project is getting flak here in this fedi thread
and that's ofc a course of action a project can take, it's just gonna get criticized for it
Alexandre Oliva
in reply to Mica • • • Public Messagethe important question is why those contributions should or shouldn't be accepted
ethical calculus doesn't rule out repurposing evil to do good
advice and judgment that prescribes choices that hurt the chooser without harming evildoers or helping their victims are not ethical
Mica
in reply to Mica • • • Public MessageSensitive content
Alexandre Oliva
in reply to Mica • • • Public Messagenot equate, no. they're quite different. but they exhibit unethical exploitation, at a different degree.
why should one be rejected while the other can be accepted, if they're both unethical?
what's the supposed ethical fault in accepting them and repurposing them for good anyway?
what good is supposed to be accomplished by rejecting them? does it look like it aids the victims? does it look like it hurts the donor? does it look like it aids the project?
what evil is supposedly accomplished by accepting them? does it hurt the victims? does it aid the donor? does it hurt the project?
Natalie
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageargv[-1]
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageIt is a dark day indeed when Microsoft Visual Studio Code is the ethically superior alternative to GNU Emacs.
Because at least Microsoft employees are allowed to quit their jobs and do something else for a living. Jesus Christ.
flower
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageEli Schwartz
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageEli Schwartz
in reply to Eli Schwartz • • • Public MessageSpace Hobo
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageWhen I was really getting into the whole FOSS upswell in the 90s, the details of the licences became a bit of a fixation for a lot of us. In particular, we kind of had to come to terms with DFSG#6 (No discrimination against fields of endeavour), as we all felt like we were the Good Hackers doing battle against the Bad Companies, and wanted to limit their ability to take advantage of us.
And so we wanted to do things like have a no-war-crimes licence, or a no-slavery licence or no-arms-deals licence. And we argued a lot about how violation might be adjudicated and where we might define the boundaries of these terms. In the end we kind of sighed and agreed that it was a reasonable thing not to try and tackle these topics specifically in *copyright law*. We're not going to look at the docket at the ICC and say "ah-HA! You violated my no-war-crimes licence when you used libextremelytinything!!!"
But this left a void, and it was filled by the ESR fash and the RMS sex-pest-apologists. Organisations felt the gap, but the best we came up with was Codes Of Conduct that just spe
... Mostrar másWhen I was really getting into the whole FOSS upswell in the 90s, the details of the licences became a bit of a fixation for a lot of us. In particular, we kind of had to come to terms with DFSG#6 (No discrimination against fields of endeavour), as we all felt like we were the Good Hackers doing battle against the Bad Companies, and wanted to limit their ability to take advantage of us.
And so we wanted to do things like have a no-war-crimes licence, or a no-slavery licence or no-arms-deals licence. And we argued a lot about how violation might be adjudicated and where we might define the boundaries of these terms. In the end we kind of sighed and agreed that it was a reasonable thing not to try and tackle these topics specifically in *copyright law*. We're not going to look at the docket at the ICC and say "ah-HA! You violated my no-war-crimes licence when you used libextremelytinything!!!"
But this left a void, and it was filled by the ESR fash and the RMS sex-pest-apologists. Organisations felt the gap, but the best we came up with was Codes Of Conduct that just specified the Extreme Decorum that set the stage for normalisation of all sorts of horrible people. I liked the essay that analysed the FOSS movement as a labour movement that didn't realise its true nature until it was too late.
Anyway, yeah, having a licence that doesn't prohibit slavery does not mean your project should look the other way. It just means the means for acting on this lie outside of copyright law. We should have been so much clearer about that.
We still can.
Paul_IPv6
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessagePhilip
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageFor anyone who wants more context, here is the extended quote (source: lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2026-11/msg00128.html).
Also do note that Eli expands that this is not an argument for slavery in a subsequent response!
Matt 🔶 (LordMatt)
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageNicolas Évrard
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageit reminds me so much of Ursula Le Guin 's The ones who walk away from Omelas.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas
The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas - Wikipedia
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Jonathan Lamothe
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message@Ariadne, bunyote friend I wish that I could say that I was entirely shocked by this. A lot of ethical problems have come to light with the GNU project over the years.
I still believe that defending Free Software is important, it just can't come at the expense of... everything else.
(1) Enno T. Boland
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageSchykle
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageGenuinely what was even the point of them making this statement. Ignoring the fact that it's just an abhorrent stance... what if they just... didn't say that? Damn 😬
If they supported images as replies, this would be mine.
Urwumpe
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageAh, the "Where the rockets come down is not my department" argument.
Technically correct, but bad for the hacker ethos.
We did not move to FOSS to stay slaves or promote further slavery, but to emanicipate us and others from the chains (of abusive copyright laws).
KT
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageNetzblockierer
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Unlisted MessageSensitive content
what do you expect from people who let #RMS back without even faking to give a shit about him being an Epstein Apologist?
youtube.com/watch?v=R2SKenHRhMg
Why Richard Stallman's Return to the FSF Is Not To Be Celebrated ...
NCommander (YouTube)Ariadne, bunyote friend
2026-11-08 07:17:05
SuperDicq
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageVictoria :3 🏳️⚧️🇵🇸
in reply to SuperDicq • • • Public MessageLouis Chartrand
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Messageanniethebruce
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageArun Isaac
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageI'm not too surprised, sadly. The free software movement here in the West is largely geeks playing with their toys and having little concern for other perspectives.
I am Indian and used to live in India. Indian free software movements had a much more holistic outlook—a single-issue free software supporter would be absurd in India.
Ben Ford
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageMudb0y
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageFredas [He/Him]
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageLibertarian moment.
Justin Derrick
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public MessageI feel like these people should be tricked into travelling to places with sketchy human rights records, then exposed to the type of abuse they don’t seem to have a problem with.
Don’t have a problem with legal slavery? Welcome to the plantation and goodbye human rights.
Complain about immigrants? Get stripped of all identity documents, money, and property, and dropped in a town where nobody even knows which language you’re speaking.
Transphobe? Get pumped full of Lupron and dressed in the clothing of the opposite gender and left with people who are also haters.
I’m just *so* tired of hearing from people with no empathy, and experiencing the persecution themselves seems like the only way they learn — just like the Trump cultists who only changed their votes because of gas prices.
Urzl
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message"must be"
That's an interesting way to say it. What principle compels that answer? Why must slavery be accepted?
MidgePhoto
in reply to Ariadne, bunyote friend • • • Public Message