OpenAI says China ran a covert campaign to turn Americans against data centers, but used facts that happen to be true
OpenAI says China ran a covert campaign to turn Americans against data centers, but used facts that happen to be true
OpenAI writes that the now-banned accounts were "supporting covert influence operations that promoted narratives in an attempt to manipulate a legitimate debate about American AI and wider...Rob Thubron (TechSpot)
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Korkki
in reply to CapuccinoCoretto • • •When they shut down the RT America studio under the foreign agents law and direct TV intervention, they did interviews with the ex-RT dissident-esq reporters who were working there. I don't remember who, and who was interviewing, so take this with a grain of salt. When they were asked on the lines of how they felt working for Russian propaganda and information campaign. They said along the lines of that of all the networks they had worked on, they were never felt as free as when they worked on RT, and they were quite open that it was all part of bringing up narratives that would disrupt the American mainstream ones and create political disruption and doubt. Their handlers in Moscow knew that the best way to achieve this was just to give them reach and mostly uncensored platform and let them do mostly whatever they want, because they knew that just bringing out the truth was the most damaging thing to American establishment.
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Skullgrid
in reply to Korkki • • •I assume these reporters were not the ones reporting on the state of russia
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CovfefeKills
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Tollana1234567
in reply to Korkki • • •Ricky Rigatoni
in reply to CapuccinoCoretto • • •like this
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CommanderCloon
in reply to Ricky Rigatoni • • •Not The Onion reshared this.
JcbAzPx
in reply to CommanderCloon • • •wonderingwanderer
in reply to Ricky Rigatoni • • •I've said this to people so many times, and they get all up in arms making strawman arguments about how I'm supposedly in favor of the thing they're against.
Like, no, if I thought you were flat out wrong and I had a differing opinion then I would tell you that. If I critique your argument on the grounds that it weakens itself by relying on misinformation, then chances are I probably agree on the bigger picture.
Some people, man...
OpenStars
in reply to wonderingwanderer • • •wonderingwanderer
in reply to OpenStars • • •For whatever reason, I have such a hard time following that advice...
Cherry
in reply to Ricky Rigatoni • • •UnderpantsWeevil
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aarch0x40
in reply to DrakeAlbrecht • • •TropicalDingdong
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •Yeah data center bad, but what kills me is the water use thing.
It really seems to rankle peoples bungle, and in both directions, that yes data-center water use is bad, but its just utterly dwarfed in comparison to forms sources of water use. And this is something I can speak to with a fair bit of expertise, in that I've worked extensively in developing water-use analyses for water districts, cities, counties, states, etc. Its just a scale issue and like with that recent Hank Green video about recycling, people truly don't understand how many people there are.
For example, take the MAWA equation (mean average water allowance). Typical indoor water allotment (and there is alot of data to back this up) is about 200 gallons (750 liters) per person per residence per day. That includes toilets, showers, cooking, washing clothing etc..
So lets take the recent number from that NYT article about its data centers water use. I think the number was 2.5 billion gallons?
73,000 gallons would be the average per-person-per-structure indoor only water all
... Mostrar másYeah data center bad, but what kills me is the water use thing.
It really seems to rankle peoples bungle, and in both directions, that yes data-center water use is bad, but its just utterly dwarfed in comparison to forms sources of water use. And this is something I can speak to with a fair bit of expertise, in that I've worked extensively in developing water-use analyses for water districts, cities, counties, states, etc. Its just a scale issue and like with that recent Hank Green video about recycling, people truly don't understand how many people there are.
For example, take the MAWA equation (mean average water allowance). Typical indoor water allotment (and there is alot of data to back this up) is about 200 gallons (750 liters) per person per residence per day. That includes toilets, showers, cooking, washing clothing etc..
So lets take the recent number from that NYT article about its data centers water use. I think the number was 2.5 billion gallons?
73,000 gallons would be the average per-person-per-structure indoor only water allotment, which again, is pretty well established.
2.5 billion divided by 73k is about 35k, which is a bit of an over estimate but makes no matter.
All of Amazons datacenters combined "used", and I use "used" lightly here because its not like the water disappeared, but it used less water than a small American town. All of their datacenters combined.
Using duckduckgo to get numbers on this..
Just.. put it into context. Say 1lb of beef takes about 2k gallons of water to produce. The average American consumes 50lbs of beef per year. So an average town of say.. 35k people would go through 3.5 billion gallons of water in beef consumption alone, annually.
And the same equations are going to hold for practically everything else humans consume. Its just... its all a matter of scale. And I agree, datacenters are not good. But the water-use argument is weak when you consider just.. something basic and well established like beef consumption, or golf courses. 2.5 billion gallons is like, 120 golf courses worth of water. Its practically nothing.
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Tolookah
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TropicalDingdong
in reply to Tolookah • • •Yeah so do lawns.
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SabinStargem
in reply to TropicalDingdong • • •Clearly, the solution is to develop a breed of astroturf that doubles as an AI datacenter. /s
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TropicalDingdong
in reply to SabinStargem • • •Not The Onion reshared this.
yetAnotherUser
in reply to Tolookah • • •Typically? Maybe in some arid climates without humidity but try using evaporative cooling during a thunderstorm and you'll find your data center shutting down from overheating.
~~70%~~ A large part of water usage in industrial nations comes from electricity generation. That's where data centers consume most of their water.
Edit: 70% is only true for Canada, globally agriculture consumes more. The US for example has ~40% each for agriculture and power generation.
kkj
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TropicalDingdong
in reply to kkj • • •I agree about golf courses being a bad metaphor but only because they feed into the same issue. They're something people see and comprehend but which completely fails to capture the scope. It only seems like a bad metaphor if you don't have any context and most people don't.
I'm not doing it to be convincing, but your reaction feeds into my point. It's back to the Hank Green point. To the ley audience it seems like a lot because "number big", but it's utterly meaningless amount, if you have just look at like "one small suburbs worth of front yard".
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GMac
in reply to TropicalDingdong • • •Ever heard the idiom: "The straw that broke the camel's back"
Water is not the only issue but to ignore it or minimise it in isolation does nothing but weaken the overall argument which is completely sound. I will aree that it shouldnt be the sole basis for argument.
Datacenters consume absurd amounts of finite resources for no definable return, but at substantial definable environmental, economic, and social costs.
TropicalDingdong
in reply to GMac • • •Ahh yes. Let me just use idioms to explain to a state government how much water is being used in a given sector. SURELY they'll appreciate that I focus my analysis on whatever clearly uninformed talking point has bubbled up through social media.
My point is that a lay understanding won't get you there.
CompactFlax
in reply to TropicalDingdong • • •I can eat a beef.
I cannot eat a datacentre, no matter how much I try it doesn’t digest.
I agree about golf courses.
huppakee
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Alcoholicorn
in reply to huppakee • • •like this
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Ilovethebomb
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •They asked ChatGPT about how to influence Americans views on AI, apparently.
Sure thing.
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Postmortal_Pop
in reply to Ilovethebomb • • •Not The Onion reshared this.
Sanctus
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •"Facts that happened to be true"
Please, shut the fuck up. Fucking shut the fuck up. I am at the end of my wits with this place.
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in reply to Sanctus • • •Skullgrid
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Womble
in reply to Skullgrid • • •Yup, yet for some reason the MLs are always talking about how brave Russia is in standing up to western imperialism by invading Ukraine.
Almost like they cant see further than "west bad, therefore anti-west good".
Skullgrid
in reply to Womble • • •givesomefucks
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •Their proof is a couple accounts in China asked the chatbot how to convince Americans to not want datacenters in their backyard...
If I asked a chatbot how to convince someone to not like getting punched in the dick, them not wanting to get punched in the dick doesn't mean there's a grand conspiracy and that's why Bob got mad after being punched in the dick.
Bob didn't need anyone to tell him not to like getting punched in the dick to have that response.
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in reply to givesomefucks • • •Pope-King Joe
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Bloomcole
in reply to Pope-King Joe • • •But you can believe them if you want.
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in reply to Pope-King Joe • • •kkj
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in reply to mgrecca2026 • • •Kennystillalive
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hark
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •Into the trash it goes.
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in reply to hark • • •wpb
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Bloomcole
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Alpha71
in reply to Bloomcole • • •Bloomcole
in reply to Alpha71 • • •They were specifically designed and produced for China.
Nothing special or some state secrets as your comment implies.
And the Chinese said no because of spying concerns. LOL
They use Huawei that is triple the speed of that H20 of the inferior USSA regime.
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Alpha71
in reply to Bloomcole • • •Bloomcole
in reply to Alpha71 • • •You're a US fascist shithole shill.
Vegafjord - demcon
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •Bloomcole
in reply to Vegafjord - demcon • • •Bunch of suckers
Chais
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Bytemeister
in reply to Chais • • •Bloomcole
in reply to Bytemeister • • •You should definitely take that scummy US fascist defense contractor's word for it.
Solrac
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •Jankatarch
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ
in reply to Jankatarch • • •I mean, in the context of AI development itself, there's the possible angle that China/Chinese AI companies would do this to attempt to slow down American based AI development in an effort to surpass them, but...yeah seems pretty goofy tbh.
They're clearly trying to claw at anything to redirect attention from data centers fucking everyone over.
Bloomcole
in reply to NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ • • •There's no way the US could catch up with them, they have nothing to fear.
This article is propaganda in itself.
NιƙƙιDιɱҽʂ
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ArcaneSlime
in reply to Jankatarch • • •Honestly I wouldn't doubt that they do, supposedly leaders both ours and theirs see us as being in a sort of cold war space race style AI race, and I guess that effectively means we are.
But I for one didn't need their campaign to hate what I can see for myself is an issue, murderbots, surveillance, and dumbing down people further have always been things that I think are "bad."
Bloomcole
in reply to ArcaneSlime • • •nullspace
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •Bloomcole
in reply to nullspace • • •Fedizen
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •OrteilGenou
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •mechoman444
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •Wait. So china pointed out why data centers are bad and were right about it and people agreed?
That's a really weird ass "covert campaign".
regdog
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •webghost0101
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •The real story is not about Chines influence on data center opinion.
Its openai reading conversations of their customers.
I mean we all already assumed they do before but this is so blatend, it smells like manufactured consent. You need to go from “suspect it happens” to “its normal to be like this”
msage
in reply to webghost0101 • • •Jamie
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •P03 Locke
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •Image generation tech in the open source world has skyrocketed in the last few years, and yet OpenAI still has some of the worst image generation models out there. It continues to produce the most generic infographic bullshit that takes any human with half a brain 0.25 seconds to recognize as AI generated. The bias is so heavily-skewed towards this "obviously AI generated" style that I don't think their engineers even give a shit about improving their image model.
If you aren't even going to take the time to actually produce something that looks halfway decent, and you know, doesn't fucking look like AI, why the fuck should I bother taking this "report" seriously?
Fizz
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •GhostFace
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •zr0
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •solidheron
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •FranGram26
in reply to VetOfTheSeas • • •Overview | We Saw What AI Data Centers Don't Want You to See | Season 3 | Episode 4
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