[serious] Why is Lemmy community generaly against AI?


I noticed almost everybody here agrees that all AI is bad, and anything produced by AI is slop. and refuse to use any software made in part or in whole with AI or help of AI?
Please mention your background and usage of AI with your answer.
in reply to ghost_laptop
liberal


All kidding aside, your generic Hexbear isn't a liberal.

Barring profound social change, decisions around AI will be made by the billionaire class. Do you trust them? Do you expect traction when petioning their lawmakers for a redress of grievances or sharing your thoughts with them on the direction of society?

in reply to Orbital [none/use name]
yeah, i know, but all of this you describe seem to be problems in the west, inherent to any big are of the market that see a huge increase in liquidity. i don't see any of this happening in china and it's not like they are not adopting AI. they helluva sure do. it's always something tangential to ai which is discussed, which is totally ok, but then the question ceases to be AI or not AI but rather what the fuck we do it once we realize it's going nowhere.
in reply to dragnucs

If you want to convince someone of something, you've got to convince them it is beneficial for them to do or not do what you want. Otherwise, it comes off like you're trying to selfishly impose your own will onto others.

If someone says that AI speeds up their workflow (which they need to live and remain housed), and your response is "but it's bad for moral reasons" you're saying that your moral reasons matter more than the other person's ability to earn money... A better idea would be to try to make them see that an ai subscription is a waste of money and doesn't actually speed up their workflow.

in reply to Shimitar
You've got a nice idea you should preach more. Government could impose a tax on data-centers bigger than a given threshold. Just like some countries have a luxury tax on some cars. this would make running very big data centers very hard and they would need some workarounds. maybe even have a cap limit on electricity usage in a region or a limitation like this.
in reply to dragnucs

It's because we are adults, so we already have better skills than a general LLM. We learned to read, write, and research in school. While I personally didn't go to art school, many people did, and they developed skills that allow them to make better art than a general use art AI.

To us, AI is just wasting our time, because it does what we can already do but worse.

Children are in an unfortunate trap, where they need to spend years producing work that is worse than the LLM to eventually be able to develop the skillset to surpass the LLM. Buying into the idea that it makes your work faster or easier is a trap. You'll be permanently dependent on it.

Esta entrada fue editada (ayer, 13:44)
in reply to disregardable

I agree with you generally. However can you clarify please when you say "does what we can already do but worse". Can you please clarify ? What is your use of AI? Software development? Engineering? Architecture? Document editing? General usage and research? Paid and advanced models vs free or simple ones?

Because how you use it with give you a varying set of results.

in reply to dragnucs
Not OP and sorry you're getting downvoted when you're asking genuine questions and not trolling. Mileage varies with AI. Most people aren't paying for AI services, meaning that they only work with really dumb models. The people creating slop videos, vibe coding usable and useful apps, using AI to do legal stuff are paying AI companies for tokens or they have expensive GPUs with them. Many companies use AI for work and train general models for specific tasks in-house. They aren't using ChatGPT available to regular people. That's why AI content can range from slop videos to really good software patches.
in reply to disregardable
we already have better skills than a general LLM


Can you read a thousand pages of tech documentation and find every reference that could be relevant to the issue you're having in minutes? Then no, you don't always have 'better skills than a general LLM'. Humans are better at some things. Computers are better at some things. Use the right tool for the job.

in reply to disregardable
Are you using AI to help you with legal stuff? I don't think you should use AI for that since it would have data on rules from all sorts of places, and might not be up to date on laws in your place. Or you could train an AI on exclusively the data in your area, but then (1) you'd need hundreds of models, and (2) they would be much less powerful since the training data is a lot less.
in reply to dragnucs

Why do we need to justify our options? It is OK to not like a technology that is killing the world? A technology where we have movies of it taking over the world and murdering the human race. A technology that has yet to turn a profit despite trillions of dollars funnelled into it.

Please mention your background and usage of AI with your answer.


No, why don't you justify your want for destroying the planet and species.

in reply to sbv
Personally I find I'm able to focus on high level design problems which I enjoy a lot. I still enjoy crafting elegant solutions to unique problems, but at least in my current job, most code is trivial and feels tedious to write by hand. Also, LLMs generate better code than some of my coworkers. Most of the slop I've had to deal with this year is in 20+ y/o codebases, and none of it was generated by LLMs.
in reply to dragnucs
Esta entrada fue editada (ayer, 15:22)
in reply to dragnucs

Because it got enshittified and politicized by Tech Bros.

If you wanna tell me about the usefulness of LLMs, you are preaching to the choir. I was playing with GTP-J 6B finetunes in 2022. I am quantizing some weights as I type.

However, you can’t look at me with a straight face and tell me everything is okay in this space. It’s a nightmare, a giant scam that is going to implode.

As Lemmy is a refuge for people who see how caustic mainstream social media is, folks here are particularly sensitive to the issues surrounding “AI” too.

In other words, Lemmy literally selects for enshittification sensitivity.

Esta entrada fue editada (ayer, 17:50)

Asklemmy reshared this.

in reply to Gorillatactics [none/use name]
I know you will not like my response and would not agree to it. I am not defending big companies, but having or hosting the data is the easy and cheapest part. Actually ingesting and training it is the hardest and most resource consuming. If it was that easy I would have done it at home and not have to rely on a cloud service, but since I tried and realized I would need at least a $2000 system to get anything useful I chose to pay a 5$ monthly fee. Compared to what it needs to run something that doesn't just give a good output but a productive output would have cost me magnitudes more than $2000. So they are not just freeloading on our work. The real issue I would agree on and defend would be resource consumption like electricity and water.
in reply to dragnucs
in reply to LadyCajAsca [she/her, comrade/them]
Tech companies are obsessed with generating code, with the ultimate goal of automating software engineers, a career that's so far been both high demand and high salary. However, the code LLMs produce is generally worse than human written code, and LLM architected software is universally worse than human architected. There is a gargantuan amount of tech debt building up and oceans of new faults being introduced as executives force developers to push code out faster, code that nobody wrote and nobody reviewed. They're fucked when prices on tokens rise.
in reply to dragnucs
I think one under considered point is that no one would care about the drawbacks of AI if they felt like they lived in a country with actual leadership and a real vision for a better future. I think most of us fee like we live in a country full of vampires who are desperately running low on human cattle to feed on.
in reply to Tabitha ☢️[she/her]

nah i'd still be mad about low effort low quality garbage that people spew all over from copypasting wrong information they could've spent five seconds looking up to vibe-coded projects that work for a minute or two and then crash, to videos with shit scripts and incorrect graphics, or long emails they didn't care enough to write so i shouldn't be expected to read.

yeah most things people make are crap because most people aren't creative professionals but drastically lowering the work it takes to shit in my mouth and eyes has made everything drastically worse.

in reply to robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]
It hurts my eyes seeing all the crap on Youtube and now all posters for events held locally. But those people are the ones who used to make crappy posters still and were responsible for memes movement like shitposting, deepfryed memes and many other loweffort memes category. They are just using AI now as a new wave.
in reply to dragnucs

If the people building and hosting models won't build them from ethically sourced data and won't host them without disrupting or negatively impacting the communities they are hosted in (noise pollution, power and water rates increasing, layoffs, diesel generators, etc) then I won't use them and would advocate against their use.

I don't expect the tech to go away but you can make a hammer from stolen resources and use it to harm individuals and communities or you can build it from ethically sourced material and use it to build things people need. If there's an ethically sourced model quantized to run on commodity hardware locally without contributing to further wealth inequality, theft, and community disruption I won't have the same moral objections to using it as I would for any of the current corporate owned llms.

Esta entrada fue editada (ayer, 18:43)
in reply to whotookkarl

I agree with you on most part and value your reasonable response. However, before we can get AI to run ethically on commodity hardware, I guess most of us will not be here, or will be very tired of it. We may need a major break thru in hardware to be able to run it and make productive use of it. I am continually in search of ways to run it locally and retain the same level of productivity to using it over the cloud. But truth is current state is still not ready for self hosting LLMs.

So I respect your stand point but be prepared that a change for the better is going to take a lot of time.

in reply to dragnucs
in reply to ClassIsOver [none/use name, any]

As I understand people in design see the worst part. I think that is because design has a huge artistic part. But when other people do it, they do not care about art, they just want to to pass some information even if it makes my eyes bleed and make my cognitive load spike thru the roof (I would be exhausted by the end of the day looking at all the slop). But truth is, those kind of people you mention wanted this situation even before AI and GenAI was a thing, they just did not have a way to do it. Now they have it. Most Big companies do not reason in the way we real humans do. They want to make money, so they build a system that makes them money, then they keep tweaking it to make even more money. They don't care about the actual product or how it is made. They care about making money.

That is why we have the situation you describe.

in reply to dragnucs
Honestly, the only parts I've felt as if AI has impacted me is in hiring. Designers tend to sell themselves based on their portfolios, and most of the decently-paying companies seem to now be using AI to sort through résumés, so regardless of how good your work is, you need to use arbitrarily-selected keywords or you won't even get an interview. The other way is that HR departments list being "proficient with leading AI platforms" with no idea how that might be important to the job, and from what I can tell, resistance to that is a red flag.
in reply to dragnucs
Esta entrada fue editada (ayer, 19:33)
in reply to dragnucs
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Most lemmy users live in countries which are run for a rich few, rather than the general public. Technology, including AI, is also used to benefit the rich, often at the cost of the rest of the population. Unfortunately this leads to people hating the technology rather than the political system.

There was a recent survey where they pointed out how people in English-speaking countries are most concerned about AI (because it is used against the people there) while people in the Global South are most positive about it (because it is used to benefit them). Here's the summary chart:-